Fetches binding spirits?

[Vagni]

Can a fetch bind and hold spirits as a spirit magic user does?

If they can what cult rank would they be considered for calculating maximum number of spirits that can be held?

I'm thinking they can, with the largest POW spirit they can bind being determined by their Spectral Combat critical range x 3 as normal, but they would maybe only be classed as a follower with a maximum number of held spirits equal to their CHA/4.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Can a fetch bind and hold spirits as a spirit magic user does?

Since they don't have a Spirit Binding skill, I'd say no.

 

[Vagni]

I was kind of envisaging the shaman doing the binding, the fetch would just be another way to control those spirits he had already bound. More like an extension to his CHA for binding spirits.

 

[PhilHibbs]

I was kind of envisaging the shaman doing the binding, the fetch would just be another way to control those spirits he had already bound. More like an extension to his CHA for binding spirits.

I wouldn't extend it like that - if it were intended to be that way, then the spirit limit table would say "3/4 of CHA + 3/4 of Fetch's CHA" for a Shaman. Also, a fetch can't carry the physical binding object.

 

[Vagni]

I've just read the Spirit Magic rules again and spotted the following:

'The recipient of the bound spirit does not necessarily need to have captured it himself. Shamans may locate and bind spirits for other tribal members. However, once the spirit is passed over to another, the recipient must perform all duties and responsibilities concerning it and it counts against the recipient's maximum number of spirits they can hold at any one time'.

So, 'can a fetch hold spirits of it's own?' - er, possibly.

The only drawback to this is it poses another two questions. What do they use as a fetish? (as this can't be anything physical for a fetch, unless the shaman carries it for them) and what cult rank do you assume a fetch is?

Maybe I should have stuck to Humakt! You know where you stand when your hacking undead apart and glaring darkly at resurrected characters. :lol:

 

[PhilHibbs]

The only drawback to this is it poses another two questions. What do they use as a fetish? (as this can't be anything physical for a fetch, unless the shaman carries it for them) and what cult rank do you assume a fetch is?

I don't think the fetch holds a rank in the cult independently of its shaman.

Oh, and another drawback is that it makes shamans twice as powerful as they are supposed to be.

 

[Vagni]

The only drawback to this is it poses another two questions. What do they use as a fetish? (as this can't be anything physical for a fetch, unless the shaman carries it for them) and what cult rank do you assume a fetch is?

I don't think the fetch holds a rank in the cult independently of its shaman.

Oh, and another drawback is that it makes shamans twice as powerful as they are supposed to be.

I agree, having thought about this for a day or two I think the rules in the Core book aren't meant to allow Fetches to act in this way, and it does give a shaman with a charismatic fetch a lot more binding power. What got me thinking about it in the first place was that this was always an ability of fetches in Avalon Hill's old RQIII.

That said a PC Shaman could dish out bound spirits to his adventuring buddies to much the same effect in theory.

I'm still seriously considering allowing it as a house rule with the fetch having a cult rank of Follower and being able to hold spirits as a fetish would - but then this would be balanced out somewhat by my house rules for Divine Allied Spirits and Sorcery Familiars.

Thanks for your sharing your thoughts Phil, it great using the forum to band ideas about like this.

 

[PhilHibbs]

What got me thinking about it in the first place was that this was always an ability of fetches in Avalon Hill's old RQIII.

A shaman's spirit control limit was the POW of his fetch. Now, it's his CHA. So it's not that shamans/fetches have lost an ability, it's just been shifted around.

That said a PC Shaman could dish out bound spirits to his adventuring buddies to much the same effect in theory.

Could they? Bindings cost POW to make in AHRQ, and the user had to cast Control (Spirit Type) on the bound spirit in order to take it over. Usually, if someone wanted a POW spirit then they had to make the binding, learn the Control spell, and the party shaman would go find the spirit to put in it, but they couldn't just hand out spirits like candy.

I'm still seriously considering allowing it as a house rule with the fetch having a cult rank of Follower and being able to hold spirits as a fetish would - but then this would be balanced out somewhat by my house rules for Divine Allied Spirits and Sorcery Familiars.

I'd be interested in Familiars rules, but sorcerors are already massively powerful. Boosting up the other cult types to match only goes so far, as it leaves anyone who doesn't go in for advanced magic even further behind. I have three players who have no interest in playing "magic-users", and I don't just want them to have to just sit back and watch the sorcerors do everything and have all the fun. Giving the sorcerors a second character each to play doesn't help! In AHRQ, a familiar was a necessary boost to make a sorceror playable. In MRQ2, it is not necessary for that purpose, but I do miss them.

 

[Vagni]

The MRQII core rules certainly state the shaman can bind spirits for others to use, and they don't count against his CHA limit once they are handed over. That said they would require the Spirit Binding skill or, presumably, a control spell of some sort in order to use. I would allow the holder to use half their Persistence skill instead if they lacked the Spirit Binding skill (a similar mechanic is in use for spirit combat for the 'shamatically challenged' who lack Spirit Binding).

That seems reasonable, as even a non-shaman with a very high Persistence is going to struggle getting the spirit to understand him at least half the time.

I know what you mean about spirit companions making magic users even more powerful, it is something I plan to control quite carefully - I think it will work for our group as there are only two of them, they both prefer role-play over power gaming and it will allow me to run adventures at a slightly higher level as they progress.

Judicious application of Cult Myths and the fact that most of their time is devoted to cult duties are one way of ensuring a GM keeps some control over such spirit companions.