Farewell!

[sidkfjjteidlkkf]

It has been a long time since I posted, but alas! I have given up D20 all together.

My reasons were: Too much number crunching. Too Complex at higher levels.

With the advent of 4th Edition, or as I refer to it, "D&D for DUMMIES", this has given me more ammunition to revert back to Old School AD&D.

So, my 1st and 2ed edition books are back in use, and the campaign is going well, with 6 players.

It has been fun being on here, but this gamer is going on to more simple gaming.

Enjoy your campaigns.

If you would like, you can join us at

dragonsfoot.org, where the "Old" editions are still going strong.

Signing Off: Koski (AKA John)

 

[Style]

I feel your pain. I too have given up on D20, and have found a far superior system to D&D of any edition in Savage Worlds. I do enjoy posting here about the wonderful setting though.

Good gaming to you. DF is a great site. You may also want to visit Knight's and Knaves boards, which are also quite good.

 

[The King]

I don't like D20 rules either, but RuneQuest is an excellent alternative, especially since the new rules provide for hero points and legendary abilities.

 

[thelevitator]

I haven't played ConanD20 yet either, and have been pleasantly surprised to see how many different systems are being used to play a Conan game. While some of the crunch isn't relevant for my FUDGE-based S&S game, there's a ton of great information here for running an awesome S&S campaign.

I can't wait to check out Dragonsfoot!

 

[Yogah of Yag]

[decloak]
I hear ya!
I got weary of the d20 number-crunch.
I too am a regular at Dragonsfoot. 8)
However, I still use my 1E Conan RPG books for the setting info/flavour text stuff.
[/decloak]

 

[Strom]

Man! This is a bit much isn't it? There isn't one system created that works 100% and is perfect.

Bottom line is Conan D20 delivers. Roll the dice and game - no tokens, playing cards etc. The damn system works at it's core. What does 4e have to do with Conan D20?

I wish you the best Koski but there's no place for farewells in Hyborian Age gaming. The dice don't lie. :lol:

 

[Supplement Four]

I wish you the best Koski but there's no place for farewells in Hyborian Age gaming. The dice don't lie. :lol:

Take a pull on the hell horn for me should you get there first!

 

[Style]

...

OK, now this is just weird. Wasn't this poster Koski earlier today?

 

[Hervé]

Hey Koski! Don't leave! I hate D20 myself and I'm staying. We're all here we're Conan fans before anything else!

 

[rabindranath72]

Hey Koski! Don't leave! I hate D20 myself and I'm staying. We're all here we're Conan fans before anything else!

Same here! I wonder why leaving with such a good community here?

 

[Thorvang]

With the advent of 4th Edition, or as I refer to it, "D&D for DUMMIES", this has given me more ammunition to revert back to Old School AD&D.

So, my 1st and 2ed edition books are back in use, and the campaign is going well, with 6 players.

Signing Off: Koski (AKA John)

I hear ya, brother. D&D sucks now, and d20 has pretty much cornered the market on game systems. I play 1E AD&D and D&D exclusively, and the only d20 systems I use are Conan and (occasionally) CoC. I'm a Dragonsfoot member, too, so I'll see you there! Good luck, and Mitra be with you!!!!

 

[Azgulor]

What does 4e have to do with Conan D20?

Not a whole hell of a lot. However edition wars and to a lesser extent, system wars seem to be all the rage on the Internet these days.

I don't begrudge anyone their system of choice. I played D&D, Rolemaster, and GURPS. I posted in GURPS forums, D&D forums, general RPG forums, etc. I talked about my campaigns, stories, adventures, etc. I might mention the system I used but never felt compelled to slam one system over another while doing so. When I wasn't playing D&D, I was buying D&D settings to use. I never felt the compulsion to trash the current edition of D&D while singing the praises of a setting. I used a ruleset that was better for me - no big deal.

These days it seems the trend is "I use System X b/c I can't stomach System Y". Often, that statement encompasses the entire argument/criticism. The fact that people feel the need to make the detracting remarks on "System X's" messageboards sometimes comes across as being tacky to me.

I'm not trying to pick on anyone for expressing their opinion. If you want to discuss the pros AND cons of a system that's cool. If you want to talk about why you picked System X over System Y by illustrating how it satisfies your play style, that's informative. You can do it without throwing another system under the bus. If specifically asked why you didn't pick System X, then the door to criticize is certainly opened.

But when I read post after post of "love the fluff but hate the system" rather than "I buy the books for the fluss b/c I use <name of system>" I wonder what's the point? If potential Conan RPG buyers are bombarded with nothing beyond "D20 bad, System Y good" you're helping to shape a negative perception (rightly or wrongly) of the game as a whole. Obviously, not all Setting-not-System Fans are like this but it seems a lot of vocal ones of later sure are.

Assuming (and yeah, I'm accepting the risks in making that move) that these Setting-not-System fans want those books that contain that great setting info to keep getting published, the manner in which they are going about it makes me think their head is lodged in an unpleasant orifice.

I'm NOT advocating suppressing criticism or giving mindless fanboy support. However, I see little, if any, point in the current debate "strategy". For those who have to state their dislike of d20 (which Conan is only based upon), are you trying to kill the Conan RPG? Are you hoping to see Conan officially using your preferred ruleset? Are you unable to praise your system without bashing another? By Crom, aren't we better than the D&D zealots?

 

[thelevitator]

I don't see why admitting to buying lots of "fluff" books but not using the single "system" books somehow bites the hand that feeds us. To play ConanD20, you only have to buy 1 book. Everything else is optional. I have more than 10 Mongoose books, and I don't play ConanD20. Do you think Mongoose enjoys my money any less than anyone else's because I don't use the D20 system? I think I understand most of your post, and agree with most of it. But I fail to see how people who don't buy 1 book in particular (the system book), but buy a bunch of other books (fluff) are somehow hurting Mongoose's sales. Incidentally, I purchased the Atlantean Edition when I first discovered Conan D20, so how does Mongoose lose money just because I don't use it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they make a profit on selling me the book, whether I use it or not.

While my head may indeed be in the wrong orifice, I don't think that matters to Mongoose as I continue to buy their books. :?:

I'm trying hard to understand how my buying 10 books from Mongoose that don't include the system book is somehow "killing" Mongoose? It's likely that I may have more ConanD20 books than some GM's who actually use the Conan D20 system.

I have recently found a system that I enjoy much more than D20 based systems. I'm using the Conan books I purchased to enhance the game that I'm designing. I will likely buy more Conan books to get more ideas on adapting to my preferred game system. I fail to see how my continued purchase of Mongoose books affects their bottom line if I don't use the actual system.

I'd scratch my head, but I apparently can't reach it due to it's current position. :wink:

 

[Strom]

What does 4e have to do with Conan D20?

Not a whole hell of a lot. However edition wars and to a lesser extent, system wars seem to be all the rage on the Internet these days.

I don't begrudge anyone their system of choice. I played D&D, Rolemaster, and GURPS. I posted in GURPS forums, D&D forums, general RPG forums, etc. I talked about my campaigns, stories, adventures, etc. I might mention the system I used but never felt compelled to slam one system over another while doing so. When I wasn't playing D&D, I was buying D&D settings to use. I never felt the compulsion to trash the current edition of D&D while singing the praises of a setting. I used a ruleset that was better for me - no big deal.

These days it seems the trend is "I use System X b/c I can't stomach System Y". Often, that statement encompasses the entire argument/criticism. The fact that people feel the need to make the detracting remarks on "System X's" messageboards sometimes comes across as being tacky to me.

I'm not trying to pick on anyone for expressing their opinion. If you want to discuss the pros AND cons of a system that's cool. If you want to talk about why you picked System X over System Y by illustrating how it satisfies your play style, that's informative. You can do it without throwing another system under the bus. If specifically asked why you didn't pick System X, then the door to criticize is certainly opened.

But when I read post after post of "love the fluff but hate the system" rather than "I buy the books for the fluss b/c I use <name of system>" I wonder what's the point? If potential Conan RPG buyers are bombarded with nothing beyond "D20 bad, System Y good" you're helping to shape a negative perception (rightly or wrongly) of the game as a whole. Obviously, not all Setting-not-System Fans are like this but it seems a lot of vocal ones of later sure are.

Assuming (and yeah, I'm accepting the risks in making that move) that these Setting-not-System fans want those books that contain that great setting info to keep getting published, the manner in which they are going about it makes me think their head is lodged in an unpleasant orifice.

I'm NOT advocating suppressing criticism or giving mindless fanboy support. However, I see little, if any, point in the current debate "strategy". For those who have to state their dislike of d20 (which Conan is only based upon), are you trying to kill the Conan RPG? Are you hoping to see Conan officially using your preferred ruleset? Are you unable to praise your system without bashing another? By Crom, aren't we better than the D&D zealots?

Exactly! You stated what I've been saying for some time now as a regular here on the forum. The active members all seem to hate D20 Conan yet they are the most vocal even though most players of the Conan RPG do use the rules as written. And it works - it delivers what it advertises. I've never seen a game as well supported as the Conan RPG be so hated on it's own forums. And saying farewell to the forum because of the system is indicative of the problem in the first place. Everyone needs to have things their way right now or its the highway.

I remember when the excitement for this game was intoxicating and filled with enthusiasm. Now we get farewells. :shock:

 

[thelevitator]

I'd gladly play in a Conan D20 game as a player, if I could find one. But just because I don't want to GM a Conan D20 game doesn't mean I don't like it. I continue to buy the books, and hopefully someday I'll find a way to play it online. I'm just personally burnt out on running 3.5-based games right now and needed a reboot.

So, does anyone here run on online group that needs a player?

 

[Azgulor]

I don't see why admitting to buying lots of "fluff" books but not using the single "system" books somehow bites the hand that feeds us. To play ConanD20, you only have to buy 1 book. Everything else is optional. I have more than 10 Mongoose books, and I don't play ConanD20. Do you think Mongoose enjoys my money any less than anyone else's because I don't use the D20 system? I think I understand most of your post, and agree with most of it. But I fail to see how people who don't buy 1 book in particular (the system book), but buy a bunch of other books (fluff) are somehow hurting Mongoose's sales. Incidentally, I purchased the Atlantean Edition when I first discovered Conan D20, so how does Mongoose lose money just because I don't use it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they make a profit on selling me the book, whether I use it or not.

While my head may indeed be in the wrong orifice, I don't think that matters to Mongoose as I continue to buy their books. :?:

I'm trying hard to understand how my buying 10 books from Mongoose that don't include the system book is somehow "killing" Mongoose? It's likely that I may have more ConanD20 books than some GM's who actually use the Conan D20 system.

I have recently found a system that I enjoy much more than D20 based systems. I'm using the Conan books I purchased to enhance the game that I'm designing. I will likely buy more Conan books to get more ideas on adapting to my preferred game system. I fail to see how my continued purchase of Mongoose books affects their bottom line if I don't use the actual system.

I'd scratch my head, but I apparently can't reach it due to it's current position. :wink:

I have zero problem with buying books for fluff. I did it for years and used it for my flavor of crunch of choice.

What I don't understand is coming here and saying, "The Mongoose fluff is great, but the Conan rules suck."

If you don't fall into that category, I'm not talking about you.

 

[thelevitator]

Whew! I can remove my head! :lol:

I personally think the Conan D20 rules are a HUGE improvement over the standard 3.5 system. If I could've gotten DM Genie to play nice with the Conan D20 system, I'd be running a Conan campaign right now. All I will say is that I don't have any interest in GM'ing a D20-based game without using DM Genie, but I'd love to play in a Conan D20 game. 8)

 

[Supplement Four]

I personally think the Conan D20 rules are a HUGE improvement over the standard 3.5 system.

Here, here!!

 

[rabindranath72]

Exactly! You stated what I've been saying for some time now as a regular here on the forum. The active members all seem to hate D20 Conan yet they are the most vocal even though most players of the Conan RPG do use the rules as written. And it works - it delivers what it advertises. I've never seen a game as well supported as the Conan RPG be so hated on it's own forums. And saying farewell to the forum because of the system is indicative of the problem in the first place. Everyone needs to have things their way right now or its the highway.

I remember when the excitement for this game was intoxicating and filled with enthusiasm. Now we get farewells. :shock:

I never cared much for the d20 system in any of its incarnations (meaning: in the form of D&D 3.x, with skills, feats, complex combat etc; except possibly d20 CoC, which removes a lots of "noise"). But I have the d20 Conan book (and two supplements) for the setting and the info, to mine and use with other game systems.
I come to the forum here mostly for campaign and background ideas. I do not read threads which deal with the rules, since I do not use the book for the rules.
I guess most of the people which dislikes d20 Conan does not like the "d20" part in the "d20 Conan" sentence, me included. There must be a definite "problem" with the system (i.e. complexity), if so many people do not like it.
More power to those who like it, but the tastes of others also have a weight.
And btw I have credits in the book as an original playtester and contributor. The version in playtesting was even more complex than what finally got used, and I was one of those who fought hard to reduce complexity, but in the end, like it or not, is the hard fact that at the base of d20 Conan there is D&D 3.5, with an added layer of complexity.

Cheers,
Antonio

 

[Hervé]

Strom wrote:

There isn't one system created that works 100% and is perfect.

That’s true. If it’s imperfect, make it simple then. I find D20 particularly hard to handle as a GM (especially when designing NPCs!). I also find it too much simulationist for a not too much realistic system.

Azgulor wrote:

For those who have to state their dislike of d20 (which Conan is only based upon), are you trying to kill the Conan RPG? Are you hoping to see Conan officially using your preferred ruleset?
Are you unable to praise your system without bashing another?

It’s the people that don’t buy the books kill the Conan RPG, not the ones that buy them and tell what they didn’t like in them. I buy the books. All of them.

By Crom, aren't we better than the D&D zealots?

You bet I’m not!

thelevitator wrote:

While my head may indeed be in the wrong orifice, I don't think that matters to Mongoose as I continue to buy their books.

You’ll have some problems to read them, I guess…

I'd scratch my head, but I apparently can't reach it due to it's current position.

Try your feet…

Strom wrote:

I've never seen a game as well supported as the Conan RPG be so hated on it's own forums.

Nobody hates the Conan RPG. It is just that the D20 System has many detractors. There surely must be a good reason for that...

I don’t hate Conan nor Mongoose. I’ve been buying all the Conan books so far, as well as all the non Gloranthan RQ books. Criticizing D20 doesn’t prevent me to appreciate Mongoose wonderful job. After all Mongoose didn’t create the D20 System, but merely choose it for Conan as a commercial choice. I guess that as long as Mongoose will have “haters” such as myself they won’t find any problem about it!


rabindranath72 wrote:

I guess most of the people which dislikes d20 Conan does not like the "d20" part in the "d20 Conan" sentence, me included. There must be a definite "problem" with the system (i.e. complexity), if so many people do not like it.

You’re my man…