Engineer requirements Core rulebook

[snrdg121408]

Hello all,

First my apologies for asking questions on items that have probably been answered on the forum. All my attempts at using the search function has returned between 5 and 20 pages of results. Most of the topics that show up have not had anything to do with the search criteria.

Next I'm not clear on the difference in the Average and Full Engineer crew requirements as listed on the table on page 113 of the core book. I'm going to use the Scout and Gazelle to confirm my understanding. Also, since I'm not sure if "drives" includes the power plant I'll do two calculations. The frist is with just the drives and the second with the power plant included. Calculation 2 is based on the CT definition that drives are the combined dtons of the j-drive, m-drive, and power plant.

Example 1:
Scout: J-Drive: 10 tons, M-Drive: 2 tons, and Power Plant: 4 tons
Average Crew: 1 Engineer per 50 tons of drive
Calculation 1 = (10 + 2)/50 = 0.24 = 0
Calculation 2 = (10 + 2 + 4)/ 50 = 0.32 = 0

Full Crew: 1 engineer per 50 tons of J-Drive, M-Drive, or Power Plant
J-Drive = 10/50 = 0.2 = 0
M-Drive = 2/50 =0.04 =0
P-Plnt = 4/50 = 0.08 = 0

Regardless of calcualtions the minimum requirement is 1 Engineer for the Scout.

Example 2:
Gazelle: J-Drive: 45 tons, M-Drive: 15 tons, and Power Plant: 25 tons
Average Crew: 1 Engineer per 50 tons of drive
Calculation 1 = (45 + 15)/50 = 1. 2 = 1
Calculation 2 = (45 + 15+ 25)/50 = 1.7 = 2

Full Crew: 1 engineer per 50 tons of J-Drive, M-Drive, or Power Plant
J-Drive = 45/50 = 0.9 = 1
M-Drive = 15/50 =0.3 = 0
P-Plnt = 25/50 = 0.5 = 1

If Average Calculation 1 is used then there is 1 Engineer.
If Average Calculation 2 is used then there are 2 Engineers.

Does the Full crew rule mean only 1 engineer for all three systems or 1 for the J-Drive and 1 for Power Plant for a total of 2 Engineers?

After doing the calculation I think the Average requirement is just the J-Drive and M-Drive. Though I think that the crew calculation should be based on the J-Drive and Power Plant instead.

Thanks for the help already provided, any help now and for the future.

 

[rust]

According to the German version (the only one at hand) the Average
crew requirement is 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Drives (presumably Jump
Drive and Maneuver Drive only, but not the Reactor), while the Full crew
requirement is 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Jump Drive, Maneuver Drive or
Power Plant.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello rust,

Thank you for the reply and the attempt to clarify how to work out the Engineer crew requirement. I've worked out the engineering crew for each of the ships which I'll list here with the math:

1. Scout/2. Seeker p. 115, 3. Free trader p. 118, 4. Yacht p. 126
J-Drive tons = 10, M-Drive tons = 2, and Power Plant tons = 4

Minimum of 1 Engineer

Average 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Drive
Engineer = (10 + 2)/50 = 12/50 = 0.24 = 0

Full 1 Engineer per 50 tons of J-Drive, M-Drive, or Power Plant
J-Drive = 10/50 = 0.2 =0
M-Drive = 2/50 = 0.04 =0
Power Plant = 4/50 = 0.08 = 0

Per minimum requirement 1 Engineer
Per minimum requirement 0 Engineer
Per full requirement 0 Engineer[/list]

5. Far Trader p. 118
J-Drive tons = 15, M-Drive tons = 2, and Power Plant tons = 7

Minimum of 1 Engineer

Average 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Drive
Engineer = (17+ 2)/50 = 19/50 = 0.38 = 0

Full 1 Engineer per 50 tons of J-Drive, M-Drive, or Power Plant
J-Drive = 17/50 = 0.34 =0
M-Drive = 2/50 = 0.04 =0
Power Plant = 7/50 = 0.14 = 0

Per minimum requirement 1 Engineer
Per Average requirement 0 Engineer
Per Full requirement 0

6. Fat Trader p. 119
J-Drive tons = 20, M-Drive tons = 5, and Power Plant tons = 10

Minimum of 1 Engineer

Average 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Drive
Engineer = (20+ 5)/50 = 25/50 = 0.5 = 1

Full 1 Engineer per 50 tons of J-Drive, M-Drive, or Power Plant
J-Drive = 20/50 = 0.4 =0
M-Drive = 5/50 = 0.1 =0
Power Plant = 10/50 = 0.2 = 0

Per minimum requirement 1 Engineer
Per Average requirement 1 Engineer
Per Full requirement 0 Engineer

7. Laboratory Ship p. 121
J-Drive tons = 25, M-Drive tons = 7, and Power Plant tons = 13

Minimum of 1 Engineer

Average 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Drive
Engineer = (25+ 7)/50 = 27/50 = 0.54 = 1

Full 1 Engineer per 50 tons of J-Drive, M-Drive, or Power Plant
J-Drive = 25/50 = 0.5 =1
M-Drive = 7/50 = 0.14 =0
Power Plant = 13/50 = 0.26 = 0

Per minimum requirement 1 Engineer
Per Average requirement 1 Engineer
Per Full requirement 1 Engineer

8. Gazelle p. 123
J-Drive tons = 45, M-Drive tons = 15, and Power Plant tons = 25

Minimum of 1 Engineer

Average 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Drive
Engineer = (45+ 15)/50 = 60/50 = 1.2 = 1

Full 1 Engineer per 50 tons of J-Drive, M-Drive, or Power Plant
J-Drive = 45/50 = 0.9 =1
M-Drive = 15/50 = 0.3 =0
Power Plant = 13/50 = 0.26 = 0

Per minimum requirement 1 Engineer
Per Average requirement 1 Engineer
Per Full requirement 1 Engineer

9. Heavy Freighter p. 125
J-Drive tons = 45, M-Drive tons = 9, and Power Plant tons = 25

Minimum of 1 Engineer

Average 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Drive
Engineer = (45+ 9)/50 = 54/50 = 1.08 = 1

Full 1 Engineer per 50 tons of J-Drive, M-Drive, or Power Plant
J-Drive = 45/50 = 0.9 =1
M-Drive = 15/50 = 0.18 =0
Power Plant = 13/50 = 0.26 = 0

Per minimum requirement 1 Engineer
Per Average requirement 1 Engineer
Per Full requirement 1 Engineer

10. Mercenary Cruiser p. 127
J-Drive tons = 55, M-Drive tons = 23, and Power Plant tons = 37

Minimum of 1 Engineer

Average 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Drive
Engineer = (55+ 23)/50 = 78/50 = 1.5 = 2

Full 1 Engineer per 50 tons of J-Drive, M-Drive, or Power Plant
J-Drive = 55/50 = 1.1 =1
M-Drive = 23/50 = 0.46 =0
Power Plant = 37/50 = 0.74 = 1

Per minimum requirement 1 Engineer
Per Average requirement 2 Engineer
Per Full requirement two of the three criteria return 1 Engineer

11. Corsair p. 129
J-Drive tons = 25, M-Drive tons = 11, and Power Plant tons = 19

Minimum of 1 Engineer

Average 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Drive
Engineer = (25+ 11)/50 = 36/50 = 0.72 = 1

Full 1 Engineer per 50 tons of J-Drive, M-Drive, or Power Plant
J-Drive = 25/50 = 0.5 =1
M-Drive = 11/50 = 0.22 =0
Power Plant = 19/50 = 0.38 = 0

Per minimum requirement 1 Engineer
Per Average requirement 1 Engineer
Per Full requirement 1 Engineer

12. Serpent Police Cutter p. 131
J-Drive tons = 0, M-Drive tons = 5, and Power Plant tons = 10

Minimum of 1 Engineer

Average 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Drive
Engineer = 5/50 = 0.1 = 0

Full 1 Engineer per 50 tons of J-Drive, M-Drive, or Power Plant
J-Drive = 0/50 = 0
M-Drive = 5/50 = 0.1 =0
Power Plant = 10/50 = 0.2= 0

Per minimum requirement 1 Engineer
Per Average requirement 0 Engineer
Per Full requirement 0 Engineer

I'm concerned that 8 of the 12 common spacecraft have a full crew of Zero when the minimum is 1.

The Merc Crusier has an Average Crew of 2 and a Full Crew of 1.

When does 1 Engineer get a chance to sleep?

To me a Full crew means 1 crew member per 50 tons of the three engineering systems aka J-Drive, M-Drive, and Power Plant.

An Average crew is somewhere between the minimum and full requirement. The minimum is 1 and the full compliment.

Am I missing something?

According to the German version (the only one at hand) the Average
crew requirement is 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Drives (presumably Jump
Drive and Maneuver Drive only, but not the Reactor), while the Full crew
requirement is 1 Engineer per 50 tons of Jump Drive, Maneuver Drive or
Power Plant.

[/list]

 

[Infojunky]

Next I'm not clear on the difference in the Average and Full Engineer crew requirements as listed on the table on page 113 of the core book. I'm going to use the Scout and Gazelle to confirm my understanding. Also, since I'm not sure if "drives" includes the power plant I'll do two calculations. The frist is with just the drives and the second with the power plant included. Calculation 2 is based on the CT definition that drives are the combined dtons of the j-drive, m-drive, and power plant.

For the record the scout boat is often run single handed.

Average manning is 1 engineer per 50 tons of total drives, Round up. So minimum is one engineer.

Full is 1 engineer per 50 tons of each drive, Round up. So a minimum of 3.

Or at least that is how I read it.

 

[snrdg121408]

Afternoon Infojunky,

Thanks for the reply and your take on the Engineer crew requirements.

Yep, the text that accompanies the crew table does state that "a single scout can run a 100-ton scout ship" which is at odds with the Minimum Crew requirement of 1 in the body of the table. CT, MT, TNE, T4, GT, and T20 state that if rounddown((J-Drive+M-Drive+Power Plant)/35,0) = 0 and hull dtons under 200-dtons an Engineer is optional. If I recall correctly T20 and GT also includes the fuel processors in the calculation.


My first impression of Average crew requirement was based on the other Traveller variants. However, after I started working through the ship design examples I concluded that the average requirement is for the J-Drive and M-Drive. I would have used the power plant and J-Drive to calculate the required number bodies. My reason is based on TNE description since the M-Drive is an addition to the power plant.

I agree that the Full Engineer crew requirment should be based on the formula (J-Drive+M-Drive+Power Plant)/50. Unfortunately the or logic operator in the text throws the formula out the airlock. Which is why the calculations shown in my post are for each system and not as a combined number.

I've looked through both the Core and HG books to find an example of creating the crew for a ship without any success. Is there an example for determing a ship's crew in any Mongoose book?

I think I'll use the original formula of J-Drive + M-Drive + Power Plant total determine the Full Crew. At least until someone shoiws me how I misunderstood the text.

Agan thanks for the help.

Next I'm not clear on the difference in the Average and Full Engineer crew requirements as listed on the table on page 113 of the core book. I'm going to use the Scout and Gazelle to confirm my understanding. Also, since I'm not sure if "drives" includes the power plant I'll do two calculations. The frist is with just the drives and the second with the power plant included. Calculation 2 is based on the CT definition that drives are the combined dtons of the j-drive, m-drive, and power plant.

For the record the scout boat is often run single handed.

Average manning is 1 engineer per 50 tons of total drives, Round up. So minimum is one engineer.

Full is 1 engineer per 50 tons of each drive, Round up. So a minimum of 3.

Or at least that is how I read it.

[/b]

 

[AndrewW]

Afternoon Infojunky,Yep, the text that accompanies the crew table does state that "a single scout can run a 100-ton scout ship" which is at odds with the Minimum

Not if you consider you still have one pilot and one enginner (and 1 navigator if not using an expert astronavigation program). They just happen to be the same person.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello again Infojunky,

If Mongoose Traveller had been my intorduction to Traveller I'd have a hard time agreeing with you about the engineer from reading the requirements. Especially, with the statement "but if disaster strikes, a lightly crewed ship has a much slower response time than a fully crewed spacecraft." To me that means regardless of size a ship (craft 100-dtons and larger) an Engineer is required. Since I have experience with the older variants of Traveller I agree with you.

Now the pilot and navigator being the same person I agree with you 100%, since pilots today have to know how to navigate using all types of equipment.

Afternoon Infojunky,Yep, the text that accompanies the crew table does state that "a single scout can run a 100-ton scout ship" which is at odds with the Minimum

Not if you consider you still have one pilot and one enginner (and 1 navigator if not using an expert astronavigation program). They just happen to be the same person.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

The basic Scout/Courier has 4 staterooms.

Using the FULL Crew:
Pilot
Navitagor
Gunner
Engineer

Also, HG has some guidelines that might be useful for crew levels and effectiveness beyond what is mentioned in the TMB.

 

[snrdg121408]

Howdy Rikki Tikki Traveller,

Thanks for the reply and the crew count. Does an empty turret require a gunner?

The basic Scout/Courier has 4 staterooms.

Using the FULL Crew:
Pilot
Navitagor
Gunner
Engineer

Also, HG has some guidelines that might be useful for crew levels and effectiveness beyond what is mentioned in the TMB.

 

[AndrewW]

Does an empty turret require a gunner?

A gunner is never actually required. A gunner may provide a better bonus then the computer running a a fire control program though. If the turret is empty or absent there isn't much point in adding a gunner to the crew for it.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AndrewW,

I was just checking to be sure that I understood Rikki Tikki Traveller correctly. In CT: Book 2 Starships an armed turret requires a gunner.
Thanks for the reply.

Does an empty turret require a gunner?

A gunner is never actually required. A gunner may provide a better bonus then the computer running a a fire control program though. If the turret is empty or absent there isn't much point in adding a gunner to the crew for it.

 

[AndrewW]

Hello AndrewW,

I was just checking to be sure that I understood Rikki Tikki Traveller correctly. In CT: Book 2 Starships an armed turret requires a gunner.
Thanks for the reply.

In my Book 2: Starships (Second edition):

One gunner may be hired per turret on a ship. ... The gunner position may be omitted if there is no major thread to the ship.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello again AndrewW,

Yep, no major threat which means either the turret is empty or just a hardpoint. Unfortunately, I have never been some place in the TU that a turret was not installed and equipped with weapons. Of course most of my ships or the ships I crewed always seemed to be undergunned;-) which is why I lost so many alter egos. As always thank you for the reply to my questions and comments.

Hello AndrewW,

I was just checking to be sure that I understood Rikki Tikki Traveller correctly. In CT: Book 2 Starships an armed turret requires a gunner.
Thanks for the reply.

In my Book 2: Starships (Second edition):

One gunner may be hired per turret on a ship. ... The gunner position may be omitted if there is no major thread to the ship.

 

[AndrewW]

Hello again AndrewW,

Yep, no major threat which means either the turret is empty or just a hardpoint. Unfortunately, I have never been some place in the TU that a turret was not installed and equipped with weapons. Of course most of my ships or the ships I crewed always seemed to be undergunned;-) which is why I lost so many alter egos. As always thank you for the reply to my questions and comments.

Or it could be the ship hasn't been completely outfited with it's full complement of weapons yet (Like players not having the funds yet). Or the weapons that where there got damaged or even stolen. Merchants trying to cut costs might have a ship with armed turrets but not hire gunners for them. Possibly under computer control in that case.

 

[AndrewW]

Azhantis converted to tanker duty had their bay and major weaponry removed and the hull positions plated over. They retained some of their turret weaponary, for elementary defense, but were always chronically undermanned with gunners.

 

[snrdg121408]

Evening AndrewW,

If the ship is in the more settled areas of the Imperium then the probable reasons for not having a gunner or weapons is cost savings. Yep, on the Imperial fringe the reasons for no weapons or gunners could be, as you indicate, not enough funds to get the weapons. The problem with straight computer control is not enough bonus points to help get the critical. When I say my ships were under gunned I mean that a 100-dton scout popping out of jump space between two fleets pounding each other is very one sided. Another case was when my Solomani destroyer was confronted by three Imperial warships, two light cruisers and an AHL. Needless to say my destroyer was bloodied and battered.

Or it could be the ship hasn't been completely outfited with it's full complement of weapons yet (Like players not having the funds yet). Or the weapons that where there got damaged or even stolen. Merchants trying to cut costs might have a ship with armed turrets but not hire gunners for them. Possibly under computer control in that case.

 

[snrdg121408]

Any of the AHL class moved from the main battle fleets were stripped of most of the main weapon systems. However, one of the AHLs somehow was purchased with all weapon systems intact by a major corporation. Of course they can't operate the vessel in Imperial space.

Azhantis converted to tanker duty had their bay and major weaponry removed and the hull positions plated over. They retained some of their turret weaponary, for elementary defense, but were always chronically undermanned with gunners.

 

[AndrewW]

Any of the AHL class moved from the main battle fleets were stripped of most of the main weapon systems. However, one of the AHLs somehow was purchased with all weapon systems intact by a major corporation. Of course they can't operate the vessel in Imperial space.

The Emissary operated in the Vargr Extents. But was just getting at the undermanned part as related to:

Yep, no major threat which means either the turret is empty or just a hardpoint.

 

[snrdg121408]

Evening AndrewW,

The Vargr Extents is the one place I would call a major threat area. Actually, I had a GM that ran a campaign there and the ship, not an AHL, was attacked at least 3 times by Corsairs. This is one of the few times an alter ego survived the campaign.

Any of the AHL class moved from the main battle fleets were stripped of most of the main weapon systems. However, one of the AHLs somehow was purchased with all weapon systems intact by a major corporation. Of course they can't operate the vessel in Imperial space.

The Emissary operated in the Vargr Extents. But was just getting at the undermanned part as related to:

Yep, no major threat which means either the turret is empty or just a hardpoint.