Elves and Dwarves?

[Adept]

What little I knew of Gloranta in RQ3 was much more intresting than what seem to have been written for HeroQuest.

And the later releases for RQ2 were superior to RQ3. Pavis/Big Rubble/Borderlands are outstanding, and I think someone else has already mentioned that Trollpak is probably the best fantasy RPG suppliment ever written.

Griffin Mountain was at least a decade ahead of it's time, and still stands as a truly excellent product. A huge area described in playable detail, with huge amounts of game hooks, encounters, local personalities, rulers, cultures, religion...

 

[Adept]

There are a lot of subcults, but you have to admit that it makes a lot more sense than RQ2 (or even RQ3, which handled the cults much better) to have versions of Orlanth and Ernalda available for all of those people who don't spend their lives adventuring.

No, I don't. They are an unnecessary over-complication added in to make the whole think look more intellectual. It's consistant with the whole move in recent Gloranthan writing to bludgeon out anything that sounds simple or just plain fun, without some educational or ego-stroking content.

Bollocks. You may not like the new material, but that doesn't mean you should get insulting over it. That is most definitely not the motivation of people like John Hughes who have had a huge hand at writing the truly excellent culture material to come out in recent years.

Many of us enjoy a rich and detailed gaming world, and especially one that feels real. Obviously that doesn't appeal to you, but there's no call in trying to put down the people who put in all that effort. If anything, it's a labour of love. Do you seriously expect that the writers have gotten a good salary out of it? Something that equals the amount of work done? I can assure you they haven't.

 

[Archer]

Well, I probably overreacted (a lot, actually), and I am sorry if I offended any of you, that was not what I intended.
I will give the new setting book the benefit of a doubt. Just because the articles on the HeroQuest site are written in a specific "overintellectual" style, it does not have to be the same for the Glorantha setting book. While the information probably will be there (that is not the problem for me), hopefully the style of writing will be different.

 

[Darran]

Well, I probably overreacted (a lot, actually), and I am sorry if I offended any of you, that was not what I intended.
I will give the new setting book the benefit of a doubt. Just because the articles on the HeroQuest site are written in a specific "overintellectual" style, it does not have to be the same for the Glorantha setting book. While the information probably will be there (that is not the problem for me), hopefully the style of writing will be different.

The Gloranthan stuff is written by Robin Laws so I do not think you'll have a problem there.

 

[Archer]

The Gloranthan stuff is written by Robin Laws so I do not think you'll have a problem there.

I hope not

 

[Adept]

Well, I probably overreacted (a lot, actually), and I am sorry if I offended any of you, that was not what I intended.
I will give the new setting book the benefit of a doubt. Just because the articles on the HeroQuest site are written in a specific "overintellectual" style, it does not have to be the same for the Glorantha setting book. While the information probably will be there (that is not the problem for me), hopefully the style of writing will be different.

The Gloranthan stuff is written by Robin Laws so I do not think you'll have a problem there.

Yeah. More the opposite. Robin bugs me a bit because of his "lowest common denominator" style. The man seems to think TV is the greatest ever source of inspiration for roleplaying and gamemastering.

But you sure can't fault him on overintellectualizing the stuff...

 

[Urox]

Yeah. More the opposite. Robin bugs me a bit because of his "lowest common denominator" style. The man seems to think TV is the greatest ever source of inspiration for roleplaying and gamemastering.

But you sure can't fault him on overintellectualizing the stuff...

I've been totally underwhelmed by Rob Laws game mechanics design. While they look interesting on paper, they are too abstract and wind up detracting from actually playing the game.

Hero Wars is the worst example -- it was essentially boiled down to abstract skill vs. abstract skill.

Some Monster
Defeat Hero Skill 2W2

Some PC
Complete Quest Skill 2W10

Some River
Impede Quests Skill 19

GM: Okay, Some Monster is ahead on on the road blocking your progress.
PC: Hrm... since I'm on a quest, I will use my Complete Quest skill to overcome this obstacle.
GM: Sounds reasonable -- since this is actually a side-quest, not the main quest, you will have a -5 penalty to your skill.
roll dice
GM: Okay, you are able displose of the monster, but now you come to a raging river. What do you do?
PC: Hrm... since I'm on a quest, I will use my Complete Quest skill to overcome this obstacle.
GM: Good idea. Uh oh, this river has the skill Impede Quest, so we will need an extended contest.
roll lots of dice
GM: Okay, you come to the tower where the chieftan's daughter is being held, but the door is locked.
PC: Hrm... since I'm on a quest, I will use my Complete Quest skill to overcome this obstacle.
etc.

Now, to Rob Law's credit, I think the World of Shadowfist (i.e. Feng Shui) was well done for background material.

 

[Archer]

Hmm, the question then is; is he involved in the mechanics at all?

 

[homerjsinnott]

What little I knew of Gloranta in RQ3 was much more intresting than what seem to have been written for HeroQuest.

And the later releases for RQ2 were superior to RQ3. Pavis/Big Rubble/Borderlands are outstanding, and A Great Troll wrote that,Trollpak is probably the best fantasy RPG suppliment ever written.

If you are a troll.






No Really, I like it a lot. I just wish it had been called DragonewtDrak, I mean...pak

Do I need to add smilies?

 

[Urox]

Member of the PE-SPAM (People for Equal Space on a Page for Aldryami amd Mostali).

I believe Chaosium started work on EflPak (and maybe DwarfPak), but they never proceeded very far, which is too bad. Of course, the bar set by TrollPak was higher than Wintertop...

 

[homerjsinnott]

In my eyes, the fact that Glorantha is some sort of psuedo-historical reproduction is what made it such a great game in the first place.


In fact, to really get the most out of the setting, I suspect you need not just a decent education but also a passable understanding of philosophy, sociology and theology...

Christ! I mean crumbs! Well that's buggered me then, my hons in Arch/Med Hist is a bit useless. :wink:

Hmmm, a degree in Classics/Sociotheolgy is what I need! :roll:
anyone know where I can get one?

Edit. Smilies added to show humour.


Archer, I have met many people, (sic)myself included, and at no point have I ever thought Degree=clever,good, funny, nice, thoughful or worth knowing.

Some of my best friends are idiots...

 

[homerjsinnott]

Hmm, the question then is; is he involved in the mechanics at all?

No, but I've seen his plan for world domination involving pancakes.

 

[homerjsinnott]

Yeah. More the opposite. Robin bugs me a bit because of his "lowest common denominator" style. The man seems to think TV is the greatest ever source of inspiration for roleplaying and gamemastering.

But you sure can't fault him on overintellectualizing the stuff...

I've been totally underwhelmed by Rob Laws game mechanics design. While they look interesting on paper, they are too abstract and wind up detracting from actually playing the game.

Hero Wars is the worst example -- it was essentially boiled down to abstract skill vs. abstract skill.

An example.


Now, to Rob Law's credit, I think the World of Shadowfist (i.e. Feng Shui) was well done for background material.

I agree, I thought the system was too flexible, But it had some good ideas.
I think they did flesh it out in Heroquest a bit. Which also had some interesting new G material.

 

[Adept]

I've been totally underwhelmed by Rob Laws game mechanics design. While they look interesting on paper, they are too abstract and wind up detracting from actually playing the game.

Hero Wars is the worst example -- it was essentially boiled down to abstract skill vs. abstract skill.

Some Monster
Defeat Hero Skill 2W2

Some PC
Complete Quest Skill 2W10

Some River
Impede Quests Skill 19

Narrative gaming is not my cup of tea either, but still I must say you aren't being entirely fair to the HeroQuest mechanics there.

HeroQuest books are apparently selling very well, and hundreads of groups are finding the mechanics playable and enjoyable. In practise it also isn't like you wrote it down. The first incarnation (Hero Wars) was a bit like that, but with the current edition HeroQuest is actually quite a slick game. And as I said earlier, the system is very rules lite. Use the material with whatever game-engine you find enjoyable.

 

[Urox]

HeroQuest books are apparently selling very well, and hundreads of groups are finding the mechanics playable and enjoyable.

I was under the impression that HW/HQ was near-death, and that MRQ would replace it.

In practise it also isn't like you wrote it down. The first incarnation (Hero Wars) was a bit like that, but with the current edition HeroQuest is actually quite a slick game.

I was so put off by Hero Wars that we quit after a few sessions. And I don't think my example was too far off-base.

GM: On your way to Jonstown, you see what appears to be a Lunar Tax Patrol ahead. They have Collect Taxes 1W5
Olanthi Warrior: I refuse to support this unjust occupation! I will try to use my Bag of Winds 1W2 to fly over the Tax patrol.
GM: Sounds good.
Lhankor Mhy Sage: I use my Create Document 1W10 skill to produce a receipt that I've already paid my taxes.
GM: Well, you don't have a lot of time or the right equipment, so you get a -15 penalty
Issaries Merchant: I use my Wealth 1W9 skill to pay my taxes.
GM: Sounds good.

 

[Adept]

HeroQuest books are apparently selling very well, and hundreads of groups are finding the mechanics playable and enjoyable.

I was under the impression that HW/HQ was near-death, and that MRQ would replace it.

Nothing of the sort. I did some discreet inquiries, and the word is that HeroQuest is selling very well indeed. Lot's of material in the works as well.

This Mongoose product is a parallel product line, and one that will explore a different era of Glorantha (and a style of gaming closer to the original RQ1/RQ2 era).

In practise it also isn't like you wrote it down. The first incarnation (Hero Wars) was a bit like that, but with the current edition HeroQuest is actually quite a slick game.

I was so put off by Hero Wars that we quit after a few sessions. And I don't think my example was too far off-base.

GM: On your way to Jonstown, you see what appears to be a Lunar Tax Patrol ahead. They have Collect Taxes 1W5
Olanthi Warrior: I refuse to support this unjust occupation! I will try to use my Bag of Winds 1W2 to fly over the Tax patrol.
GM: Sounds good.
Lhankor Mhy Sage: I use my Create Document 1W10 skill to produce a receipt that I've already paid my taxes.
GM: Well, you don't have a lot of time or the right equipment, so you get a -15 penalty
Issaries Merchant: I use my Wealth 1W9 skill to pay my taxes.
GM: Sounds good.

Uh, have you actually played HeroQuest? That's not how it goes at all

 

[Urox]

Uh, have you actually played HeroQuest? That's not how it goes at all

I was refering to Hero Wars, which I haven't played since it came out (2000?).

Am I confusing it with another system?

Our group never took to bidding APs (I take a quick swing at him and only bid 3APs), Edges (1W3^2 anyone?), comparitive reults (okay, you got a major victory, so you gain your bid and your opponent loses the same number of APs), et. al.

Hit locations, parries, damage reduction, lopping off limbs is more to our liking.

 

[RMS]

No, I don't. They are an unnecessary over-complication added in to make the whole think look more intellectual. It's consistant with the whole move in recent Gloranthan writing to bludgeon out anything that sounds simple or just plain fun, without some educational or ego-stroking content. It's a game. It doesn't have to be realistic, it just has to work.

Well, it sounds like Glorantha isn't a good match for you then. The depth of Glorantha was there from day one and is something many of us enjoyed and what brought us into the world. We like the fact that it's realistic, etc. Why get all upset about it though? If you don't like it, there are dozens of other game worlds out there without the depth and development of Glorantha, or just ignore the bits you don't like and play the rest. There's no reason to get insulting about it though.

And there it is again. I don't want to have to micromanage every aspect of every game, it's not meant to be a management exercise.

Running a game is exactly that: a management exercise. If you're going to run a game, you're going to spend time managing resources. There's no way around that unless you go completely freeform, and even then it'll be present to some extent. Telling the players what options they have a character creation is something you always have to do, and there's no more to it in HQ than there was in RQ (2 or 3).

 

[RMS]

Uh, have you actually played HeroQuest? That's not how it goes at all

I was refering to Hero Wars, which I haven't played since it came out (2000?).

Am I confusing it with another system?

Probably not. HQ is the updated and cleaned up version of HW. I never saw the original, but it was apparently very poorly written and explained. Even HQ is written a fair bit differently than it actually plays. It's a great game, but definitely on the rules light, narrative side of things.

Our group never took to bidding APs (I take a quick swing at him and only bid 3APs), Edges (1W3^2 anyone?), comparitive reults (okay, you got a major victory, so you gain your bid and your opponent loses the same number of APs), et. al.

I can see how this is a little weird, especially at first.

Hit locations, parries, damage reduction, lopping off limbs is more to our liking.

I like this too. I'm apparently the only person in the world who likes both HQ and RQ equally. They're both great systems, but just handle different things well. I'm leaning towards HQ now because my time is limited and it moves so fast and easily. However, I'll definitely buy the new RQ and will give it a try too.

 

[Darran]

HeroQuest books are apparently selling very well, and hundreads of groups are finding the mechanics playable and enjoyable.

I was under the impression that HW/HQ was near-death, and that MRQ would replace it.

Not at all.
In fact HeroQuest is still going strong with a new edition coming out very soon as the first edition has almost sold out.