Earth-Centauri War - Report!

[Foxmeister]

the G'vahn - not sure its broken - kinda go on the its very good but ok.............however it would be nice to have a choice at War as well speaking as a Centauri player.

Ok, I'm a Narn player, so I bound to say it's not broken - at the upper end of the War PL yes, but no more so than the Tara'Lin or the Warlock (IMHO of course!). Given the lack of granularity of the PL system, there's always going to be a spread of ships and there's going to be one at top, and one at bottom.

Now, I would say that the Octurion is definitely at the lower end of the War PL scale.... perhaps that needs to be better?

Regards,

Dave

 

[Jim?]

I don't think that the G'Vrahn's broken... having both used and played aginst them, they have an extremely heavy punch to the front, but their secondaries are rubbish, and if you're not in a good position or are playing against a fast/agile fleet with one, it will die. You may as well say that the Marathon's broken, I like using 2 of them easily as much as I do a G'Vrahn.

I think that both the Primus and the Octurion could do with a slight tweak... particularly the Octurion. A War level ship with speed 6, lumbering and range 18 on it's furthest firing weapon system? I'd say that even 2 G'Quans would give it a severe paisting without too much trouble, and they're not that great. A Bin'Tak, G'Vrahn, Warlock, Mankhat, Mishakur or Sharlin would smash it beyond recognition before it came close to even being in range.

Giving both the Primus and Octurion range 24 on their beams like the Sulust would go a long way towards making them useful without breaking them, particularly if the Octurion gained another couple of dice.

I'd also like to see a bigger Centauri ship with a bank or two of Ballistic Torpedos, perhaps creating an Octurion varient that looses it's beams and some cannon dice to pick up two racks of Ballistic Torps to the front, it is a War level ship, after all...

 

[Da Boss]

The Octurion is not tremendous - - not rubbish but I would not normally pick one - bit more range on its beam (same as a Sullust perhaps) or interceptors would porbably sort it?

 

[phoenixhawk]

Sounds like a fun weekend. I think one thing to kepe in mind with bantering about "broken" and such is that the G'Vrahn and the Liati and such are more advanced than the Octurian and Bin'tak and some of the older designs. This game spans a large number of years and takes many years of development and technology into account with regard to shipbuilding and ship design. The ships of the Crusade era are the legacy of the Shadows and Vorlons and so are much more powerful and advanced than their previous brothers. In context, those ships are powerful, but they should be, while, in the same context, older designs seem weaker. Taken out of context, it can be said that things are "broken", but most of the time this game seems to be a game of context, especially with regard to the EA fleets, which are divided into context settings.

Glad the EA and her allies won in the end.

Chris

 

[Burger]

Sounds like a fun weekend. I think one thing to kepe in mind with bantering about "broken" and such is that the G'Vrahn and the Liati and such are more advanced than the Octurian and Bin'tak and some of the older designs. This game spans a large number of years and takes many years of development and technology into account with regard to shipbuilding and ship design. The ships of the Crusade era are the legacy of the Shadows and Vorlons and so are much more powerful and advanced than their previous brothers. In context, those ships are powerful, but they should be, while, in the same context, older designs seem weaker. Taken out of context, it can be said that things are "broken", but most of the time this game seems to be a game of context, especially with regard to the EA fleets, which are divided into context settings.

Thats why we have PL's. To balance. All ships in a given PL should be roughly equal, no matter what the race or age or technology level.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The Octurion is not tremendous - - not rubbish but I would not normally pick one - bit more range on its beam (same as a Sullust perhaps) or interceptors would porbably sort it?

There's a few things I'd do to the Octurion to tweak it if that's the angle we want to take. I noticed I was the only player to take one to the weekend, at 5 battle that was a surprise.

Fix no. 1: upgrade the ion cannons to heavy ion cannons. For a war level ship it struggles to damage anything in its own class and even most battle level units. Hull 6 is the bane of the Centauri. Doing this would give it a lot of AP dice.

Fix no. 2: give it some ballistic torpedoes. Six or 8 AD at range 30 would go a long way to evening up the odds against things like the G'Vrahn. Maybe go the Dilgar route and give it two banks so you can ripple fire every turn or alpha-strike every other turn.

Fix. 3: give it some interceptors back. The ship is basically defenceless and e-mines totally negate using its Sentris for this role.

Fix no. 4: up the damage. It's already got less damage than the G'Vrahn and has no defences. While it struggles to reply to enemy fire it's getting battered by long-range beams and missiles that it can't intercept.

Any of these would be acceptable tweaks to the Octurion. In general, I think the bigger Centauri ships all punch below their weight and work better at picking on smaller ships. The Vorchan does better at killing hull 6 targets with its plasma accelerator...

 

[Da Boss]

In general, I think the bigger Centauri ships all punch below their weight and work better at picking on smaller ships. The Vorchan does better at killing hull 6 targets with its plasma accelerator...

Hmm - I must admit I am liking the Primus more now you convinced me to try it - a fighter / maximus as interceptor cover is good. The Liati's did do sterling work over the weekend - mine had fun killing Hunters in particular (4 in two games)- only 2 45 turns - ahhhhhhh how sad

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Maybe it's just my stinking luck at dice, but my Primus didn't achieve much at all. Smacked a couple of Narn about a bit and nobbled a White Star, I think that's basically it for the weekend.

 

[H]

Maybe it's just my stinking luck at dice, but my Primus didn't achieve much at all. Smacked a couple of Narn about a bit and nobbled a White Star, I think that's basically it for the weekend.

in all fairness it never really seemed to be your weekend... I blame the lack of bacon in your blood! :wink:

 

[Shadow Queen]

too much coffee in the blood stream and very little beer

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I didn't have much coffee, but plenty of beer. Hiff, are you ever going to let me forget the bacon?! :lol:

You know, I've always had pretty bad luck at dice in every game I've played. I must be jinxed or something... :?

 

[Da Boss]

AH but in the good old days of the Republic you would have many servants to polish, roll and read the dice made from narn bones.............thats what you are missing................

 

[Shadow Queen]

I didn't have much coffee, but plenty of beer. Hiff, are you ever going to let me forget the bacon?! :lol:

You know, I've always had pretty bad luck at dice in every game I've played. I must be jinxed or something... :?

whats the bacon thing then???

if you wanted bacon i could of brought some of my home cured bacon...

 

[Centauri_Admiral]

Hey leave my G'Vrahn alone, its just one ship in fleet of others ships, and it is the most advanced and newest Narn ship to leave the dockyards.

the Centauri have the Demos, the Dargan, the Rutarion and the Liati which are scary plus the Adira has advanced jump point plus CEG and they moan about one ship in the Narn fleet, it may be good and has no Narn weakness but thats called progression, heck ask the Earthers it took them three ages from slow lumbering ships to fast moving ships.[/quote

Shane, thats a load of bullcrap and you know it, its a broken ship. Progression? We never see any evidence of narn military science progression IN ANY of the post season 5 productions, its just hinted at due their membership of the ISA. And as the minbari and earth alliance are key players in the ISA, do you really think either would allow the narn to advance to a level of tech far superior to either of them? Lets face it, as the G'Vrahn stands, its level of tech advancements would slaughter minbari vessels. You call it progression because it gives you an easy way to beat fleets that up to now, you have never been able to defeat before, using tactics and proper fleet selection. How about then, if you want to talk progression, the centauri have an adira without lumbering, higher speed, and a greater turn. According the military science progression of the centauri, thats a logical step given the speed and agility of the Liati, the latest ship to turn out of the centauri spacedocks. You'd be screaming blue murder if that was the case.

Your arguement is a load of balls shane, sorry to say it, but its true. If you hadn't had access to the G'Vrahn; my backside would you have won as many games as you did this weekend.

 

[H]

would the centauri have won as many games as they did without the Liati?

 

[katadder]

probably not, but I think that was also mainly down to me equipping them with GEGs which made them rather annoying. for battle level they do only have 28 damage which compared with the WS gunship isnt much more especially without AA, which is why it has more firepower than a WS gunship. one lucky high damage crit can kill one, in fact i think it happened to one, which isnt as likely to kill most other battle level vessels.
the g'vrahn is top end for sure, think maybe if it only had one turn it would not be as bad as it is. I would give it good odds against the neroon and nemesis too. its the speed, 2 turns and reloading e-mines really help that ship be the beast it is. better if that had like i said one turn and one shot e-mine, with the bin'tak having reloading ones due to being bigger etc which would actually make it a choice between the 2, currently there isnt one and the bin'tak really does have an enfacis on the Bin part.

 

[H]

i had just been thining about the reversal of e-mines

I'm good to keep the turns.. the tashkat is as maneuvreable so it's not unfeasable.

the problem with the Neroon and nemesis is, well, they are a bit pants for armageddon ships...

 

[katadder]

no dont really like the turns, the fact it isnt lumbering is enough, even the warlock and victory only get one turn. in fact apart from the WS carrier, tashkat and g'vrah do any other warships get the manouvrable? the WS gunship fair enough because of its pedigree, the tashkat just hasnt got the weapons of a g'vrahn. but the Narn having something that manouvrable? even their most used skirmish ship (the ka'toc) only has one turn, how did they get the idea about mobility?

oh and for centauri players with a valerius model, if you download my earth/centauri war pack theres stats in there, if you lower the beam by 1AD you have a ship that is about on par maybe with a G'vrahn and something i think we should have in there.

 

[Foxmeister]

Two Liati were already doing a number on my G'Vrahn before the Adira turned up to end my last game. Their GEGs were not as significant as their natural speed and agility, and their ability to dodge. I note with interest that the two battle points which jumped over to the adjacent table from mine were of course, Liatis....


Regards,

Dave

 

[Burger]

in fact apart from the WS carrier, tashkat and g'vrah do any other warships get the manouvrable?

Fireraptor, Vorlon Light Cruiser, Z'Takk... and of course Shadow Ship.

It's starting to sound a bit like "OK so apart from the roads, the irrigation, the wine, fresh water system and public health, what did the romans do for us?"