Dredd at Gencon 2009 Rocked Hard.

[Rex]

Just a quick note, to say thanks to all the folks that turned out to play in all the Judge Dredd Events the Black Hand had the privilege of running for the Mongoose Infantry and the loyal legion of fans out there.

Every game seemed to be a raging success (At least mine were, I always count folks cheering, shaking your hand saying thank you and asking for directions to the booth a good sign), and props to our fellow Team member MacGregor of the Clan MacGregor (there can be only one, but plenty of name typos to go with it) for spotting the JIMP in the rulebook before I did.

This games got legs like you wouldn't believe, and of course when I catch up from the backlog at work here I'll hope into a few of the rules threads as well but I have to say, Great Product, Great Time.

Looking forward to more great times with this game in the days to come. Again, thanks for coming to Gencon, enduring the Imported Heat and Humidity on the walk to the Crowne Plaza to play, and hope to see you all and more at the next one.

~Rex..The Black Hand...Mongoose Infantry...

 

[Loz]

Thanks for the report Rex. Really great to hear that Dredd kicked butt.

 

[djd]

Rex-

Have a look at the other Dredd tread please and let us have your take on the issues I've raised there will you? Would be grateful for your input from actually playing the game

 

[Rex]

Rex-

Have a look at the other Dredd tread please and let us have your take on the issues I've raised there will you? Would be grateful for your input from actually playing the game

Drop me a quick link to that thread an as soon as I am off the phone with the Union, I'll see what I can offer up. There's just SO many good 2000ad threads to go through.

~Rex
:twisted:

 

[djd]

Rex,

These are the issues I've picked up on so far- don't get me wrong though, love the game and the writing's very entertaining for a RPG.

'OK- a bit more reading and I'm coming across a few errors and inconsistencies. One of the most striking would seem to be the absence of a psi ability to cover pre-cogs. Despite saying (page 62) that Pre Cogs specialise in pre-cognition and clairvoyance I can't find any ability that would really cover this. Also the Psion Traveller book suggests doubling psi strength for a Judge Dredd setting, yet the Judge Dredd book makesw no reference to this...

It also seems that Skill 0 don't really exist in JD. Each new skill granted a PC seems to start at level 1. That is except for some strange instances of being granted a skill at level 0 but with a specialism included. For instance, Gun Combat (scattergun) 0. Clearly in these cases the skill needs to be granted at level 1 rather than 0.

Elsewhere in the rules we have a suvival roll of 12+ for Full Eagle Day yet in the character generation example it's 9+.

In one of the background pieces it states that the world of Judge Dredd is far stranger than the world of the early 20th Century - presumably should have been 21st? On page 56 it refers to a chart at page 55 -which is actually on 57.

Not looking for errors- these are just ones that have jumped out at me. Al in all I'm very impressed with the book. Judges are seriously kick ass characters and look like being great fun to play.

and

Other issues I've picked up on -

There's no actual mechanic given for using a Heat Seeking round - how hard is it to hit? Can it be evaded?

It states that there are only three of each special round available in any given lawgiver clip but RR bullets can be rapid fired which would use a minimum of 4 rounds and as many as 12 for autofire.

The lawgiver targeting system gives a +2 for each aim action. This is the same as the Rapid Aim special technique that judges can learn - whilst you could say that well, this applies to any weapon rather than just the lawgiver it is largely useless given a judge is likely to be using his lawgiver 95% of the time.

The stunner on the lawgiver is such a powerful weapon that it seems hard to find that many instances where the use of live ammo will be justified. Doesn't seem in line with the comics?

Clearer explanation of when a judge is justified in using deadly force on a perp would be useful. Dredd seems to use it as a matter of course where perps are resisting arrest. There are so many non deadly tactics available to judges (if they call for backup even more) that the use of deadly force could well drop to real world levels unless some clear rules of engagement are set out.

The bike canons are quoted as having 200 rounds each but in the table on the same page it says 36 each...

The relative performance of the Zipper bike seems wrong compared to the performance of the Lawmaster - check the two sets of stats. Also it's stated that the Zipper is much faster than the lawmaster. The stats tell us its 30kph quicker... I guess it's been in 2000AD at some point but 570kph for a bike with no fairing seems somewhat insane! Try hanging on to an unfaired bike at 150mph... Over 300mph doesn't sound like fun.

The lists of crimes are great however there seem to be a few missing. There's no money laundering for instance. Can't imagine that not being a crime in the future. The charges of attemping to commit a crime and conspiracy to commit a crime seem to attract lesser sentences. In the real world that is not the case. Also Conspiracy requires more than one person to commit - you can't conspire by yourself. Sorry if that last bit seems a bit nerdy but it's what I do for a living!

 

[Rex]

Hmmmmmmm *Looks over the list* You found several of the same things we found as well, good eye. Some have easy answers but others don't . However, we did answer them at the Con to even the most Elitist Judge Dredd Fan (like ME!), ultimate satisfaction. It's not official of course, just something I worked up, that works. Who knows maybe the Signs and Portents guys will like it and snatch it up (S&P rocks by the way)....

So, I'll have an answer for you when I get back into work tomorrow. Just need to find the note book (still unpacking went straight from Gencon to Work 5 hours away) I scribbled all the fixes in (like the Pre-Cog stuff). It's all very simple really.

Until I get back though, did you spot the JIMP? MacGregor and Myself did but he beat me to the punch, Lot of folks missed him though.

Anyway need to get back to the day job, but I'll drag the note book in with me, and post it for you in the AM.

~Rex :twisted:

 

[djd]

Cheers Rex - no that's all I've spotted so far. Away for a few days now so look forward to seeing your feedback when I'm back

 

[OldMongooseFordy]

There'll be an errata on this soon. Rex can you also send me any issues you discovered via PM.

One quick one - the world of Judge Dredd actually includes the 21st Century (the saga in the comics was first set in 2099) so it makes more sense to compare it to the century previous, otherwise you're basically saying it's stranger than the world it started in :?

 

[Rex]

There'll be an errata on this soon. Rex can you also send me any issues you discovered via PM.

One quick one - the world of Judge Dredd actually includes the 21st Century (the saga in the comics was first set in 2099) so it makes more sense to compare it to the century previous, otherwise you're basically saying it's stranger than the world it started in :?

Will do so. Erratta wise it's pretty light actually. Precogs (Since seeing the future etc can be game breaking, examples avaialble) I tend to keep in the hands of MYSELF.

Though as a quick fix, I've allowed it to Clairvoyants, with 6th Sense. Seems a logical expansion then I just chain it to an effect chart scaled like Perp Sense.

The Aiming is an easy thing if you look at basic Aiming (+1), the Special Ability (+2) and the Lawgiver (+2). The Lawgivers +2 is no different then the basic Traveller Gun Add On's, like laser Sights and Intelligent weapons. We just total it up, and track the Action types. Rapid Aim Judges just get to that +6 Aim maximum twice as fast as non Rapid Aim Judges.

The Bike Cannon I ran as having two, 200 round belts. I used the 36 Rnd limitation as a marker, to make a roll for a misfeed or a jam.

Though having fired 40mm bofors, 36 Round clips of 20mm would be workable. BIG, but workable. I lean towards belts for the 20MM though just from personal experience. Have to dig out the comics and give them a comb over for more hard info there.

Anytime a Skill 0 with a Subskill showed up I bumped it to a 1. Other skill 0's and Skills bought as Seasoned Judge Runs of course remained normal.

Heat seeking round I used the existing thermal rules for. No Soft Cover bonuses, No bonus from Smoke. Everything else, I tied to the guided Weapon rules.

Rounds in the lawgiver issue I looked at several ways. I decided I wanted there to be a reason, why sometimes a Judge would opt out for a Rifle or a Shotgun, so I dropped the Auto Fire to a 3. Still fiddling with a few issues there since the actual full Auto, would eat up more rounds of that type of Ammo then you would get. Again, an issue for actual material digging there.

Got to get out to the dry storage. Opening up the 2000AD vault is akin to cracking open the Ark of the Covenant.

The Stunner, well, I side with the non game material there. I just applied a 50/50 may work, might not work for the option. Sort of like the old Jump Torpedo stuff heh......

The rest I'll send along to you in a PM Fordy. For the most part though, it's a very very clean book. Even if there is a JIMP walking down the Lard Street of Mega City One. :twisted: Gimme a day or two on it still playing catch up at work here.

~Rex

 

[djd]

Cheers Rex-

The 50/50 rule for the stunner was something I was thinking of- or maybe fails on a 1-2 on a D6.

200 rounds a gun on the lawmaster seems like a LOT of weight. I notice the flyer version of the bike says 100 / gun. Sounds a little more realistic?

Will have a look at the guided weapon rules and see how that works... Is that a hit on a 8+ and if it misses it just tries again next round? Instead of jamming perhaps a Dex 12+ roll to evade?

A nicely written book though. Actually quite fun to read

 

[djd]

There'll be an errata on this soon. Rex can you also send me any issues you discovered via PM.

One quick one - the world of Judge Dredd actually includes the 21st Century (the saga in the comics was first set in 2099) so it makes more sense to compare it to the century previous, otherwise you're basically saying it's stranger than the world it started in :?

Except that it says the start of the 20th century. I think the 1900's would be a strange enough world for most of us here - I'm inclined to think it's just a typo. No big deal :lol:

 

[Rex]

Cheers Rex-

The 50/50 rule for the stunner was something I was thinking of- or maybe fails on a 1-2 on a D6.

200 rounds a gun on the lawmaster seems like a LOT of weight. I notice the flyer version of the bike says 100 / gun. Sounds a little more realistic?

Will have a look at the guided weapon rules and see how that works... Is that a hit on a 8+ and if it misses it just tries again next round? Instead of jamming perhaps a Dex 12+ roll to evade?

A nicely written book though. Actually quite fun to read

1-2 on a single D6 would give you some controllable failure granularity.

Now, the Lawmaster Ammo issue. Well, I've got to look at that from my real world perspective with 20MM ammo. So, if you figure it as a Belt of 200 Rounds each, that's roughly .9 Pounds, Per round, not including the Belt weight itself. So figure, 180 pounds Just for the Rounds, and another 25 to 35 pounds, for the belt linkage, and if this is all in a feed system one could carry in say, the "saddle bags" of the Lawmaster, that mechanism alone would have to be around 50 pounds by itself. So, total, 530 pounds of Ammo, Ammo Belt, Linkage, and Delivery system.

Each Cannon btw, juding by various pictures and what not would weigh in excess of 170 pounds a piece, so, toss in another 340 pounds, and then the ammo, you've got 700 pounds of Cannon, Ammo Feed, and Ammo.

Right now, the Weapon system alone, outweighs most of the Production bikes out there at the moment. 36 Round Magazine, Bofors though, would be roughly 40-45 pounds all together, depending on filler.

Figure the Dry Weight, of a "nowadays" Humongosaur Motorcycle (Like my old Boss Hoss 502) is a bit Under 1400 Pounds Dry:

.....

As you can see, the Boss Hoss is a BIG machine. Still, not as big as a Law Master. Law Master still needs to add Armor, the Laser, the Computer, Power System for that, the Auto Drive features, and the Fiber Rock Tires (Scaling those works out to almost 250 a wheel btw).....

The Law Master is a GIGANTIC machine, so huge in fact that really, at this point, another 700 pounds of cannons and ammo really isn't making a dent.........

So, if Weight's really a factor for a sci fi comic book setting, there is a lot to consider. Or, you just roll with it. Right now, I'm using 36 Round Magazines with the 200 Round mark meaning Replace the Barrel. Keeps people from turning half of Mega City One into swiss cheese.

~Rex

 

[djd]

Yes on reflection I agree with you. I'd go for the 36 round option- coupled with the laser that's more than enough firepower - and not so much that life becomes too easy

 

[Rex]

Yes on reflection I agree with you. I'd go for the 36 round option- coupled with the laser that's more than enough firepower - and not so much that life becomes too easy

Keeps the Tek Judge in the Patrol group busy too every 200 Rounds. Yanking a split or warped cannon barrel is no fun.

~Rex

 

[djd]

Going back to the Heat Seeker issue, I'd propose that it hits on an unmodified 8+ - if it misses it gets to try again at 8+ each round. It keeps trying until it hits or is evaded with a roll of Dex 12+ (modified by thermal counter measures, etc). The evading perp can do nothing else in the round other than try and evade.

 

[dreamingbadger]

Going back to the Heat Seeker issue, I'd propose that it hits on an unmodified 8+ - if it misses it gets to try again at 8+ each round. It keeps trying until it hits or is evaded with a roll of Dex 12+ (modified by thermal counter measures, etc). The evading perp can do nothing else in the round other than try and evade.

Ok I see what you are trying to get at, but, 6 seconds is a lot of fuel for a bullet to carry... let alone more... a missile gets away with it. Also with a highish muzzle velocity, say 900-1200 feet per second, it's going to be a long way away, even if we assume a very slow muzzle velocity, say 100 feet per second, the round is going to travel a long way.

What about unless the character actively dodges with a roll of DEX 12+ (modified by thermal countermeaures) the HS round automatically hits the target? This represents the round trying to reaquire the target several times in the same round.

 

[djd]

That makes sense - I suppose the only reason I favour the approach that I took is that it represents to some extent the scenes in the comics where a perp seems to be dodging a HS for a while! Either would work I think - I've just taken the guided missile rule from the Traveller main book effectively

 

[dreamingbadger]

That makes sense - I suppose the only reason I favour the approach that I took is that it represents to some extent the scenes in the comics where a perp seems to be dodging a HS for a while! Either would work I think - I've just taken the guided missile rule from the Traveller main book effectively

The other way I thought about, was to give the HS round 6 re-attacks, but all within a single turn, the perp gets to actively dodge + bonuses for thermal conditions and the round attacks as per the missile rules of course (each dodge counts a -1 as the perp tries to evade the hotshot) etc... it gives more of the feel of the comic... but the mechanic is much lengthier and the result is pretty much the same

 

[djd]

Yes- I think that is certainly a workable solution!

 

[dreamingbadger]

I wuld probabbly add something along the lines of if the HS misses because of thermal interference, then rol d6 1-2 it will try and reaquire the original target, 3-4 it will aquire the heat source as its target, 5-6 it will aquire any valid heat source in its seeker arc.