Drahk noob...

[Abraxas]

... and I need help.

I just traded some Vorlons for some Drahk (which should be ariving soon) and I want to get a general strategy on how to use them.

What I'm getting:

Mothership
Light Cruiser
9 Hvy Raiders
3 Lt Raiders

I figured for a 5 pt RAID (my opponets being Earth and Narn) to be:

1 Mothership (5 Hvy Raiders and 3 Lt Raiders)
1 Lt Cruiser

Obviously I didn't have a whole lot to choose from, but I wanted to know if this were even whorth using. Also, I want some general ideas on how to use this new fleet.

Can I also have a general idea of what to get next? Cruisers? Are they whorth it? Fast Destroyers better than Lt Cruisers? The other way around?

Strengths. Weaknesses. Help.

Thanks.

 

[CZuschlag]

Light Cruisers are very valid ships. Range on the beam is seriously comprimised, but 3 AD of SAP, DD, Beam, Precise is bad news. The Fast Destroyer is currently a massive mistake that no one should buy.

This fleet overall is a decent buy. It's a bit unfortunate that there's no good way to get a scout into this mix cheaply without sacrificing the Light Cruiser, but that's the way things go.

The Light Raiders are very very sturdy against anything but beams. They can't hurt much of anything, but can go crit-trawling with the best of them. You use these as nimble initiative sinks. The high Drakh initiative (here, +6!!) and the Mothership (another initiative sink) lets you move 5 things almost freely before you have to make any decisions at all.

The main secret source of Drakh firepower is the Heavy Raider; however, it is not nearly as survivable as the Light Raider cousin. The Dodge change is huge.

Drakh are usually at home in close as all those side guns that add up to damage that fleet have really don't against the Dodge and GEG. You'll apply the GEG over and over again, getting tons of use out of it.

Note that when a Raider gets to Crippled, it falls apart very fast.

Many people complain that Motherships are too easy to kill, but at 5 Raid, killing this one will be a chore. If desparate, hide in or behind asteroid fields: if you take 1 asteroid hit, you'll probably GEG it off!

At the end of the game, against limited opponent firepower, the Mothership is fully capable of wading into the battle and using its GEG and massive bulk as a blunt instrument. If something gets behind it, though --- well, that's why you have a jump engine.

 

[katadder]

actually you can carry scouts in huge hangars. not that the drakh need scouts.

 

[Abraxas]

actually you can carry scouts in huge hangars. not that the drakh need scouts.

Do 2 Scouts count as a single hanger?

 

[CZuschlag]

Katadder, you can, but you shouldn't. You're giving up a Skirmish for a Patrol with no change in return. It's a pretty bad trade, on the whole.

And, yes, Drakh need scouts. Especially Drakh, actually. A successful redirect for a Raider redirects its entire firepower, and the Raiders can almost never simply cruise up on CAF orders -- you are relying on your excessive maneouverability to give you an edge, and you lose that if you CAF. The excellent scout tries to give you that back.

Abraxas: Nope! You're down a priority level for nothing if you do it. Kinda dubious.

 

[Abraxas]

Katadder, you can, but you shouldn't. You're giving up a Skirmish for a Patrol with no change in return. It's a pretty bad trade, on the whole.

And, yes, Drakh need scouts. Especially Drakh, actually. A successful redirect for a Raider redirects its entire firepower, and the Raiders can almost never simply cruise up on CAF orders -- you are relying on your excessive maneouverability to give you an edge, and you lose that if you CAF. The excellent scout tries to give you that back.

Abraxas: Nope! You're down a priority level for nothing if you do it. Kinda dubious.

Never mind... no scouts...

 

[Fin-man]

Well, having played Drakh I can tell you what I noted from my experience...

A) First off, the Mothership is awesome!!! Look at what it provides:

1) It carries 8 skirmish ships, which is more than you could get by breaking the war point down, AND you get the Mothership as well
2) As was pointed out, acts as an initiative sink
3) It gives a +2 initiative bonus (to an already impressive +4)
4) It has 100 hull points (admittedly at hull 4), but it has a GEG 4 to offset this

B) The light raider is the most maneuverable ship you have, the very equal of the vaunted white star! As noted by CZuschlag, get them in from the sides / rear of enemies, and have a good time! (Note: this becomes much harder against hull 6 ships.)

C) The heavy raider is the true hammer of your force, but it is fragile with a dodge 5+ and a GEG1. They are still fairly maneuverable with two 45 degree turns, but you have to protect them from long-range sniping (especially beams!) on the way in. Use light raiders to distract

D) The scouts are GREAT! Patrol choice, 4+ stealth, 6 dice of AP to the front, and a GEG1. (Oh, and they are scouts) I agree with CZuschlag that they should be bought independently of the Mothership.

E) Fast Destroyer – It’s not as nice as a Light Cruiser, but it does have the maneuverability bonus and a better GEG (I believe) Use it as a sturdy heavy raider, and attack from the fringes of the sides / rear of the enemy, where the force of return fire is lessened.

F) Light Cruiser – A nice, well-balanced ship, but the range of the beams is a little lacking, and it is not that sturdy against any coordinated attack. I still try to use them whenever possible, when the Mothership is not feasible.

G) Cruiser – A great front-line warship, good range, good GEG, and beams both front and rear, as well as twin-linked AP dice in all arcs. It’s the long range hammer, and is also useful to keep enemy ships from trying to circle around behind you.

H) Carrier – Total crap. :evil: (Both model-wise and usefulness-wise.) I can’t think of a single positive thing to say about this ship…


Try a Mothership, one heavy raider, and two scouts as a Raid 5 force. It will scare the crap out of your opponent, as he is swarmed by a host of annoying (and a short range, lethal) ships. Have fun with your new fleet!

Fin-man

... and I need help.

I just traded some Vorlons for some Drahk (which should be ariving soon) and I want to get a general strategy on how to use them.

What I'm getting:

Mothership
Light Cruiser
9 Hvy Raiders
3 Lt Raiders

I figured for a 5 pt RAID (my opponets being Earth and Narn) to be:

1 Mothership (5 Hvy Raiders and 3 Lt Raiders)
1 Lt Cruiser

Obviously I didn't have a whole lot to choose from, but I wanted to know if this were even whorth using. Also, I want some general ideas on how to use this new fleet.

Can I also have a general idea of what to get next? Cruisers? Are they whorth it? Fast Destroyers better than Lt Cruisers? The other way around?

Strengths. Weaknesses. Help.

Thanks.

 

[katadder]

the light cruiser isnt balanced - its the prefect of the drakh fleet, except has precise as well.

 

[Abraxas]

the light cruiser isnt balanced - its the prefect of the drakh fleet, except has precise as well.

Really? This is the first time *I* have heard complaints about ANY Drahk ships being cheezy...


As for the Cruiser (can you tell I want one?) what priority game do you recomend them for? 5 point BATTLE and above?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Triggy]

It's pretty well established that the Drakh Light Cruiser is about as good as Katadder says. It just isn't as famous as its Centauri cousin

That's the reason why Fast Destroyers (a good balanced ship) are never chosen!

 

[emperorpenguin]

It's pretty well established that the Drakh Light Cruiser is about as good as Katadder says. It just isn't as famous as its Centauri cousin

That's the reason why Fast Destroyers (a good balanced ship) are never chosen!

Is it!? Bloody hell I defeated 3 of them and a heavy cruiser at Gaelcon without a single prefect!

 

[Da Boss]

but not as good as a Maximus and some guts behind it ! (paraphrasing Sgt in Zulu)

 

[thePirv]

Is it!? Bloody hell I defeated 3 of them and a heavy cruiser at Gaelcon without a single prefect!

No, you defeated 2 of them and a Heavy Cruiser at Gaelcon, the third Light Cruiser ran away and hid behind a planet lol

 

[CZuschlag]

No, seriously -- the Fast Destroyer is a very poor ship. I'd never, EVER take one as is. It solves no problem over the two Heavy Raiders. Does it improve mobility? Not noticably, you get 2" extra move, but that's it, and that doesn't help turning radius at all. Does is give extra Damage? Not noticably, after Dodge the damage score of a single Heavy Raider is 24. Does it improve the Hull? No, it's 4. Does it improve the firepower? Realistically no; while the range on the beam is better, the firepower is worse (4 dice vs. 3), and the other firepower is only moderate. And I have lost an initiative sink.

So, in total firepower I am level, but much smaller in damage 48 vs 26, have have solved no main tactical issue. What have I gained? That's easy -- GEG 3 vs. GEG 1.5 (remember dodge is a defense, and they stack multiplicatively!). Is that worth 22 damage to a Hull 4 ship, and an initiative sink?

No. Not even close.

And therefore, the Fast Destroyer isn't balanced, either, Triggy. It's a poor, poor ship.

That's why the Fast Destroyer is awful.

 

[Triggy]

No, seriously -- the Fast Destroyer is a very poor ship. I'd never, EVER take one as is. It solves no problem over the two Heavy Raiders. Does it improve mobility? Not noticably, you get 2" extra move, but that's it, and that doesn't help turning radius at all. Does is give extra Damage? Not noticably, after Dodge the damage score of a single Heavy Raider is 24. Does it improve the Hull? No, it's 4. Does it improve the firepower? Realistically no; while the range on the beam is better, the firepower is worse (4 dice vs. 3), and the other firepower is only moderate. And I have lost an initiative sink.

So, in total firepower I am level, but much smaller in damage 48 vs 26, have have solved no main tactical issue. What have I gained? That's easy -- GEG 3 vs. GEG 1.5 (remember dodge is a defense, and they stack multiplicatively!). Is that worth 22 damage to a Hull 4 ship, and an initiative sink?

No. Not even close.

And therefore, the Fast Destroyer isn't balanced, either, Triggy. It's a poor, poor ship.

That's why the Fast Destroyer is awful.

I agree that it's not a great ship but particularly at low PL (e.g. Patrol or Skirmish) games it's an absolute beast to kill (GEG 3 on a Raid PL ship is very high) and has reasonable firepower to back it up. It's this balancing a ship for all PLs that's one of the most difficult things to achieve with a "weird" rule like GEG.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Is it!? Bloody hell I defeated 3 of them and a heavy cruiser at Gaelcon without a single prefect!

No, you defeated 2 of them and a Heavy Cruiser at Gaelcon, the third Light Cruiser ran away and hid behind a planet lol

:lol: True! But I can vouch for how evil those ships are

 

[Abraxas]

Well, I got the models today... and damnit, wouldn't you know I got a Fast Destroyer and NOT a Lt. Cruiser.

It wasn't something I bought from Mongoose, so it wasn't their fault, but rather the fault of the guy I traded with.

Oh well...


Mothership - (5 Hvy Raiders, 3 Lt Raiders)
2 Hvy Raiders

As a 5 pt RAID... I guess it'll do. I guess I'll have to buy some stuff off of eBay (Scouts, Lt Cruisers and maybe a Hvy Cruiser just for the hell of it... unless they plan on changing the model soon).

Thanks for the help.

 

[CZuschlag]

As far as a Light Cruiser best comparable goes, I'd probably have to select either the Vorlon Transport. It's not perfect by any means, but it's closer than the Teshlan to compare: the massive speed of the Teshlan certainly changes the assessment. Actually, none of the assessments are; GEG really has no easy parallel anywhere. So we'll try to divide out the assessments. It'll be hard -- granted!

--------Drakh--------Vorlon
Hull.........5................5
Eff. Dmg.28..............46 (After adaptive and 3.5/hit from Ancient charts)
Speed.....8................8
Turn......2/45..........1/90 (6 of 1, half dozen of other)
Other....GEG 2.....Self Repair 4 or so (after adaptive and 3.5/hit) -- pretty close, actually
CPU......Yes.............Yes
AJP.......Yes.............Yes
Prmry: 3 DD, SAP...4, AP (6 potential dice of damage vs. 4 is a big, big deal)
Range:...18..............12
Scndry:..6 AP.......Charge Pulse
Crits?.....Yes.............No

So here's the balance question: is the resilience against critical effects, Charged Pulse, and the 64% increase in durability worth the 50% drop in firepower and the lack side guns?

Probably not; but it's marginally close -- never taking criticals is quite useful. I don't think it's anywhere near as obvious as the Prefect at Hull 6, or the Sulust with its substantial damage advantage and interceptors. But I'm willing to be wrong.

 

[Abraxas]

I realize now that I made a huge error. I misread the list he gave me COMPLETELY.

The REAL list of ships I got:

1 Mothership
1 Fast Destroyer
3 Hvy Raiders
9 Lt Raiders

Well... anyone ever make a run on capital ships with the Lt Raiders?

Looks like I NEED to take a look at eBay for some more Hvy Raiders...

 

[Triggy]

As far as a Light Cruiser best comparable goes, I'd probably have to select either the Vorlon Transport. It's not perfect by any means, but it's closer than the Teshlan to compare: the massive speed of the Teshlan certainly changes the assessment. Actually, none of the assessments are; GEG really has no easy parallel anywhere. So we'll try to divide out the assessments. It'll be hard -- granted!

--------Drakh--------Vorlon
Hull.........5................5
Eff. Dmg.28..............46 (After adaptive and 3.5/hit from Ancient charts)
Speed.....8................8
Turn......2/45..........1/90 (6 of 1, half dozen of other)
Other....GEG 2.....Self Repair 4 or so (after adaptive and 3.5/hit) -- pretty close, actually
CPU......Yes.............Yes
AJP.......Yes.............Yes
Prmry: 3 DD, SAP...4, AP (6 potential dice of damage vs. 4 is a big, big deal)
Range:...18..............12
Scndry:..6 AP.......Charge Pulse
Crits?.....Yes.............No

So here's the balance question: is the resilience against critical effects, Charged Pulse, and the 64% increase in durability worth the 50% drop in firepower and the lack side guns?

Probably not; but it's marginally close -- never taking criticals is quite useful. I don't think it's anywhere near as obvious as the Prefect at Hull 6, or the Sulust with its substantial damage advantage and interceptors. But I'm willing to be wrong.

The big, big, big difference is that GEG affects every incoming shot differently (therefore is better at lower PLs), unlike Self-Repair. GEG 2 gives it an effective Damage score of about 41 and the Vorlons with Self-Repair and ignoring the effects of criticals an effective Damage score of about 67. However the Light Cruiser has a significantly better beam (range and SAP vs one fewer AD) and very good secondaries too. Your summary actually pretty much says the same!

However, given the choice between good guns or good toughness, I'd take good guns every day, so long as you have the manoeuvrability to deliver it!