Dogfight?

[phavoc]

Personally I figure if you can combine missiles from multiple turrets to hit a single target you can select missiles into smaller groups from a bay and send them to different targets. Differentiation and grouping control is allowed in one direction (single turrets added together), so why not in the opposite (a bay firing at more than 1 target). My opinion and houserule if it is not allowed in RAW.

I agree that it should be possible. A bay is simply a concentrated set of missile launchers and a magazine. The concept has always been limited by the limitations of the gaming system - being that a missile is a missile is a missile. The torpedo was supposed to change that, but then it didn't because you have any ship essentially firing the same weapons. So the bigger ships got bays to soak up some of their stupendous hull sections instead of actually scaling UP the weapon system. Can you imagine say an Iowa class BB equipped with 5" guns everywhere instead of it's primary armament of 16" guns? In the Traveller universe ships have more or less been just scaled up/down versions of the old Atlanta-class CL with it's 6 dual 5" turrets. Now we have truly larger weapons with 500 Dton large bays/turrets, so some of that has been fixed. Though their hard point consumption seems kinda puny compared to their size.

So what you are asking for is essentially that a ship be able to launch it's compliment of missiles from all of it's launchers, and then from that designate how many individual missiles will be included in a per-target salvo. Which seems perfectly fine to me. If you can engage multiple targets with your beam weapons, you surely should be able to do the same with your missiles.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

At least I, PsiTraveller, and arcador seems to have been lead astray by the references to the personal and vehicle combat system. This seems to indicate a general problem.

The Close Range Combat section needs clarification, either in Core or HG.

CLOSE RANGE COMBAT
As mentioned at the start of this chapter, spacecraft fighting at ranges of less than 10km, or attacking vehicles or Travellers directly, use the normal six second combat round rather than the six minute round used for space combat.
Combat is conducted using the dogfighting rules for vehicles. Remember to take into account scaling differences for damage and attack rolls as described on page 157.

Dogfights
Battling spacecraft within Close or Adjacent range of one another use these ‘dogfight’ rules. This is a series of manoeuvres whereby the pilot of one ship attempts to gain a position of advantage over another.
Combat rounds in dogfights are six seconds long and follow the normal combat rules as detailed on page 71. The combat steps detailed on page 158 are not used in dogfights.

The italicised parts should be deleted. A note saying the dogfighting roll replaces the Manoeuvre Phase in close range combat should be inserted.

Edit: spelling.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Personally I figure if you can combine missiles from multiple turrets to hit a single target you can select missiles into smaller groups from a bay and send them to different targets. Differentiation and grouping control is allowed in one direction (single turrets added together), so why not in the opposite (a bay firing at more than 1 target). My opinion and houserule if it is not allowed in RAW.

I agree that it should be possible. A bay is simply a concentrated set of missile launchers and a magazine.

The rules doesn't explicitly say it's allowed, nor that it is not allowed. The only hint I could find is:

Missiles are handled differently when in double or triple turrets and are always fired individually, so do not get the bonus above. See page 161 for missile combat.

I would say we can launch missiles individually at any target we feel like, and of course make a salvo of all missiles launched by the same ship against the same target.

 

[phavoc]

I thought the core also said that all missiles fired from a ship at a single target were grouped as a single salvo?

I don't have my book in front of ne.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I thought the core also said that all missiles fired from a ship at a single target were grouped as a single salvo?

Quite, hence I said:

I would say we can launch missiles individually at any target we feel like, and of course make a salvo of all missiles launched by the same ship against the same target.

I think we agree.

 

[phavoc]

No, you are missing something. You said:

The only hint I could find is:

Missiles are handled differently when in double or triple turrets and are always fired individually, so do not get the bonus above. See page 161 for missile combat.

And that's when I said:

I thought the core also said that all missiles fired from a ship at a single target were grouped as a single salvo?

I don't have my book in front of me.

My reading of the rule you quoted above, is that a turreted missile attack would be firing individual missiles, NOT salvo's, at ANY target. And my recall of the book's rule was that a ship firing missiles as a target combined all missiles in the attack as a single salvo.

Those two statements are diametrically opposed to one another.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I do not see the problem.

First I launch the missiles individually at any target. (Meaning I do not have to fire all missiles from a single bay at the same target.)
Then I group all missiles launched at the same target by the same ship into a salvo.

 

[phavoc]

.... The question is how can you get a multi-missile salvo from TURRET fire, if you can only fire them individually? So my 400 tons SDB equipped with 4 triple missile turrets... Does it fire 12 x 1 missile salvos at a single target, or does it fire 1 x 12 missile salvo at a single target?? There is not a question related to a bay here. It's specifically dealing with turret missile fire and the apparent rule contradiction.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Example: We have a SDB with 4 triple missile turrets. We can launch 12 missiles per round.

We can select target for each individual missile, regardless of mount. So for example we can fire 4 missiles at Target A, 1 missile at Target B, and 7 missiles at Target C.

When we have selected target for all missiles, we group all missiles to be fired at the same target into a salvo. So in our example Salvo A contains 4 missiles, Salvo B contains 1 missile, and Salvo C contains 7 missiles.

 

[Nerhesi]

Yup - I'm aligned with the above. The dont even have to come from the same launchers.

2 Medium bays (24 x 2), 2 small bays (2 x 12), 10 triple turrets (30). Total missiles 102.

Divide those into "salvos" with a different target each (or simply 1 target receiving a 102 missile salvo)

 

[phavoc]

Ok. I got into my core book and I see what I was confusing as far as targeting. You were right AnotherDilbert.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

You were right AnotherDilbert.

I would not go so far, I merely offer an interpretation that makes combat simple and would at first glance seem to satisfy the rules.