Do you change rules for purposes of Canon???

[vitalis6969]

I know I am going to get flamed into cinders for this post but I have been rewatching the series and have seen many instances where the series differs entirely from that of the game.

Point in case, boresight weapons of the Narn. In the episode where the centauri are blockading B5 and the G'Quon cruiser jumps in and attacks the Primus, the G'Quon can be seen firing its Heavy Laser in the 1 o'clock low, 3 o'clock low and unbelievably the killshot is a 4 o'clock low position.

Hardly boresight, in fact both the 3 o'clock and 4 o'clock would place the shots in the right firing arc.

If memory serves me correctly, simular, non boresight shots can be seen in Earth cruisers during the battles to retake Earth from Clark. I can check the DVDs.

So, for the matter of our home rules, boresight is pretty much gone and have been moved to forward arc until the 2nd ed rules come out and then we will see what we have to do.

-V

 

[emperorpenguin]

I agree that the G'Quan is clearly not boresighted.

I felt the same about Omegas but a trawl through DVDs didn't yield any clear cut instances

i don't like boresight mostly because it is awkward. unless you have adequate counters it can be tricky to remember which ship boresighted which if you have a close grouping of ships

 

[vitalis6969]

I felt the same about Omegas but a trawl through DVDs didn't yield any clear cut instances

I'll double check "Alone in the Night" where Sheridan gets captured by the Aliens for experimentation. Some decent shots of the Agamemnon in that episode, or at least of its beam hitting.

i don't like boresight mostly because it is awkward. unless you have adequate counters it can be tricky to remember which ship boresighted which if you have a close grouping of ships

I totally agree here. Its a complete pain. We have been using Star Frontiers style "cones" for boresight, but have decided to make things easier with Forward Arc and just be done with it. Battles are supposed to be taking place at thousands of miles anyway, no reason not to have forward arc.

-V

 

[Jal]

the beams on the Omega look to have good arks on the vertical as seen in Endgame and Alone In The Night but i dont think there are any shots of them having good horizontal firing arcs.

the only possible time we might have seen actual footage of horizontal arcs of fire on the Omega is when they show the 2 Clarkist Omegas destroying all of those civilian liners during the Civil War (dont remember the episode atm).

 

[emperorpenguin]

the only possible time we might have seen actual footage of horizontal arcs of fire on the Omega is when they show the 2 Clarkist Omegas destroying all of those civilian liners during the Civil War (dont remember the episode atm).

"Moments of Transisition", but there is only one Omega. Its beam sweeps from left to right across the transports but even boresight beams can do though at present, oddly enough!

 

[lastbesthope]

"Moments of Transisition", but there is only one Omega. Its beam sweeps from left to right across the transports but even boresight beams can do though at present, oddly enough!

Can they? A boresight beam can split between targets up to 4" apart that are within the arc, but that arc is a straight line dead forward.
So unless the Omega has rolled 90 degrees and you allow vertival (wrt to the Omega frame of reference) sweeping of the beam also...

LBH

 

[emperorpenguin]

"Moments of Transisition", but there is only one Omega. Its beam sweeps from left to right across the transports but even boresight beams can do though at present, oddly enough!

Can they? A boresight beam can split between targets up to 4" apart that are within the arc, but that arc is a straight line dead forward.
So unless the Omega has rolled 90 degrees and you allow vertival (wrt to the Omega frame of reference) sweeping of the beam also...

LBH

to be honest I've never really thought about it! I have never split a beam shot myself so this hasn't come up.

If the rule does prevent boresights doing it then this could be the nail in the coffin for boresights...

 

[Silvereye]

I must admit I have only split a Beam a few times. It is actually pretty hard to find targets within 4" most of the time. And usually whatever you point the Beam at needs all the Beams AD.

But you can split a boresight arc Beam, providing the targets are all within 4" of each other along the boresight line. (The Beam trait is what affects the AD distribution, but the boresight arc limits it).

I believe Burger or Reaverman actually posted a picture of a Ka'Toc boresighting a Minbari ship and a Nial flight at one point.

 

[Ripple]

I split beams often...and particularly split boresight beams often. It's a great way to finish off banged up ships and do a bit of crit fishing. Not that it hasn't bit on the tail a few times...but that is more than balanced by the number of weapon off line crits I've gotten from peeling a beam die or two off for that extra ship in range.

The other good use is when you have nothing but flights in your arc. Do you really need more than one beam die vs a hull three flight?

Ripple

 

[Morakas]

I believe the rules should reflect the show to some degree. However if we base the whole game on the show some races wouldn't see play. I think when two people play a game the winner shouldn't be based on who is using the more advanced race. What fun is that?

 

[Burger]

I think when two people play a game the winner shouldn't be based on who is using the more advanced race. What fun is that?

Thats why more advanced races have their mainline ships in higher PL's. For example Shadow Ship is Armageddon, Sharlin is War and Hyperion is Raid.

More advanced races pay more for their ships.

 

[Alexb83]

Well, one of the main drives in 2e is apparently trying to get more of what we see on screen into the game. Obviously there are limits to what can be done on these lines - look at the objections on my 2e vorlon beam deflection thread.

If you go too much with canon, the Narn would pop if hit by any weapons, the Minbari would kill all EA vessels in one shot, and never turn up without 20 Sharlins, whitestars would be nearly invulnerable... and yeah, the game wouldn't be much fun.

That being said, I think there is big imbalance in some areas of the game already - I don't think that Centauri and Narn for instance, pay enough for what they tend to get at each PL (beam dice alone are a good indication between races). But that's just me...

 

[Greg Smith]

Somethings in ACTA are excluded or toned down purely for simplicity and speed of play.

Now one of the other playtesters pointed out to me that the B5 Wars Omega had two laser mounts on the front, both with arcs of fire. However when it did get a target directly ahead (ie boresighted) it could fire both. If you simplify this, you get an Omega with a boresight. It's not ideal, not wholly reflective of the show, but it's simple and fast.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

...and it unfairly restricts the Omega's ability to use its lasers. When you sacrifice detail for simplicity something is always lost. You just have to find the point where what's lost doesn't outweigh what's gained.

On the issue of the Omega, how much bitching do we hear about its beams being next to useless because of boresighting? I sincerely hope the boresight concept vanishes from 2nd edition altogether.

 

[Greg Smith]

...and it unfairly restricts the Omega's ability to use its lasers. When you sacrifice detail for simplicity something is always lost. You just have to find the point where what's lost doesn't outweigh what's gained.

True. That is somewhat subjective though.

On the issue of the Omega, how much bitching do we hear about its beams being next to useless because of boresighting? I sincerely hope the boresight concept vanishes from 2nd edition altogether.

I don't usually have too much of a problem with boresights, since I usually take plenty of initiative sinks (or Narn ships with both B and F beams). But we playtesters are discussing this at the moment.

 

[locarno24]

I don't usually have too much of a problem with boresights, since I usually take plenty of initiative sinks (or Narn ships with both B and F beams). But we playtesters are discussing this at the moment.

Initiative sinks are important even with forward arc, but part of the problem with the centauri 'beam team' was the ability to get away with using laser ships without needing initiative sinks to line up a shot; hence being able to spend all 5 points (or whatever) on laser platforms. A primus doesn't have that much more killing power than an omega (+50%). What really makes it so much better is that you don't need to have a shedload of olympus corvettes floating around to give you a shot - which means you have more laser ships, as well as an edge per ship.

...and it unfairly restricts the Omega's ability to use its lasers. When you sacrifice detail for simplicity something is always lost. You just have to find the point where what's lost doesn't outweigh what's gained.

Except boresight is an extra bit of detail - which is a bit random as - as noted - you see these lasers firing distinctly off-centreline. In fact the only ships which appear to have centrelined lasers are the white star (nope) and the excalibur (umm....nope)

 

[emperorpenguin]

It's not ideal, not wholly reflective of the show, but it's simple and fast.

I'd debate it being simple greg, because you have to nominate a target and then remember that target. A forward arc is much simpler

 

[emperorpenguin]

Except boresight is an extra bit of detail - which is a bit random as - as noted - you see these lasers firing distinctly off-centreline. In fact the only ships which appear to have centrelined lasers are the white star (nope) and the excalibur (umm....nope)

and the Drazi

oh and the Avioki, but we only see it fire once so hard to tell!

 

[Greg Smith]

It is less simple than forward arc, but less complex than two separate arcs that only give maximum firepower when they overlap.

Of course boresight then gives rise to tactical complications. Of course the same can be said for anything else that is simplified in the game.

 

[emperorpenguin]

It is less simple than forward arc, but less complex than two separate arcs that only give maximum firepower when they overlap. .

true but what wasn't complex in B5 Wars!? :lol: