DD and crits

[Alexb83]

A couple of rules questions from my first game today (not too clear in the book)

Okay, so a roll of a 4 with SAP, does that count as a potential critical, or are potential crits only scored on a natural 6 with a DD roll?

Destroyers moving fast - aren't these obscene? The only way I can see to hit them is to either have a spotter and/or have them side on (and even then only hit on a 6) or at best a 5.

As a side note - aircraft suck atm! Essex + 2 New Orleans vs. Q. Elizabeth and 3 Tribals, did not end well for the Americans. Out of 6 helldivers, only 2 made it into attack, and out of 3 Avengers, all of the torpedoes did a grand total of 1 pt of damage.

 

[hegemon]

One other thing that cropped up today in our game was when turning, is the 1st turning mark bigger than the subsequent 3 turning marks or is that a "missprint" on the counter.

 

[Leadman]

Crits are scored on a roll of 4+ after a natural 6 is rolled for damage.

Aircraft and DD's will be fixed in the supplement (at least I think that the changes will fix them).

Yes, the 1st turn on the marker is bigger than the others.

Dannie

 

[juggler69uk]

As a side note ..................only 2 made it into attack.

Dont forget you can stack as many aircraft against a ship as you want (to try and soak up AA), but after AA only a max of 3 can attack in any one turn

 

[Alexb83]

A max of 3 of any one type isn't it? I had 3 dive bombers make a run and 3 torpedo bombers make firing from 4 inches simultaneously, and kept back 3 dive bombers for the next turn.

2/3 bombers made it, and all 3 torpedo bombers made it. But the bombs did nothing, and of the 3 torpedo spreads only 1 hit. It promptly did 1 hit (of the 3 AD) with 3 'hits' (from 4 DD) with one threatened critical. After torpedo belt, I had only one hit.

The next turn the three remaining bombers went in and got torn apart by AA.

Just seems the offensive armament of carriers is a bit underwhelming... I wouldn't have wanted to be the captain of the Warspite threatened by the entire bomber force of the Essex in real life, but here... it wasn't much of a threat.

 

[juggler69uk]

A max of 3 of any one type isn't it?

Errr No I think its a max of 3 of any type eg

3 bombers or
3 torps or
1 bomb and 2 torp or
2 bomb and 1 torp

 

[Alexb83]

If that's the case, it's even worse than I'd thought!

But I think you're right... 'only 3 flights (of any type) may attack a ship each turn'. 3 flights vs. anything up to 10 AD of AA (with bonuses vs. dive bombers!). And assuming you get even 1 flight through (probably best case on the dice) you get 1 AD?

Last time I use a carrier, I fink.

 

[vitalis6969]

Check out DMs site regarding modifications to VaS... His aircraft rules RULE!!!

Actually, they are better and still pretty easy to play and keep track of...

http://www.btinternet.com/~david.manley/naval/VAS/VAS.html

-V

 

[Alexb83]

Yeah, this was my first try with vanilla rules. For our philippines campaign, TGT and I will be using many of DM's rule mods (including tripling aircraft AD and limiting dogfights for fighters).

Not going into the 3 box system for carriers though, to keep it reasonably simple.

 

[juggler69uk]

If that's the case, it's even worse than I'd thought!

But I think you're right... 'only 3 flights (of any type) may attack a ship each turn'. 3 flights vs. anything up to 10 AD of AA

Which is why i said earlier

Dont forget you can stack as many aircraft against a ship as you want (to try and soak up AA), but after AA only a max of 3 can attack in any one turn

Which should allow some in to the attack even after AA

 

[Court Jester]

If that's the case, it's even worse than I'd thought!

But I think you're right... 'only 3 flights (of any type) may attack a ship each turn'. 3 flights vs. anything up to 10 AD of AA (with bonuses vs. dive bombers!). And assuming you get even 1 flight through (probably best case on the dice) you get 1 AD?

Last time I use a carrier, I fink.

You can possition more than 3 flights around a ship but in the attack pahse you can only attack with 3 flights. So you sould always be able to attack with the full 3 flights if you move enough aircraft into base to base (or within 4" if torpedo bombers...).

Only the biggest battleships have AA of over 6-7 dice. From my experience with aircraft you will generally loose 1-2 flights if you are taking AA fire from a few ships at once. Mind you I generally use 3 carriers in my fleet...

 

[Phoknight]

Actually, you have to declare a bomber is making an attack in the movement phase, not the attack phase. This is because the modifiers to the ship's AA fire is dependant upon the fighter making an attack that turn, and AA fire takes place outside the normal attack sequence, before any other attacks are declared, and the modifiers have to be known at that time.


I haven't read the alternate rules yet, but it should be noted that certain Navies (The US fleet is most notible in this) are given huge AA ratings, while other fleets (Japan, France) barely have enough AA to defend themselves against a single bomber attacking their ship, let alone a full carrier strike. Hopefully, any upcoming changes to the air rules won't make aircraft more dangerous at the cost of the air-defense-penalized navies losing any hope of survival.

Lastly, Destroyers -are- supposed to be all but impossible to hit from extreme ranges. Their speed is the only thing that keeps these fragile ships from going down on the first turn of a battle, and it is far from impossible to deal with. First off, that invunerability only lasts as long as the Destroyer is charging at the enemy, or running away, and only at extreme or long ranges. At range 20, only the fastest DDs, or those running at Flank speed are still immune to main battery fire, and again only as long as they continue to charge straight in or run away. Once they turn (and they have to turn sooner or later), they can be hit.

Note also that DDs can always be hit by Torpedoes, Dive Bombers, or Torpedo Bombers, all of whom do not take the speed of the targer into account. Indeed, Destroyers are horribly vunerable targets for Torpedo Bombers because there is no way the ship can avoid taking side shots, and most Destroyers lack sufficient air defenses to stop such attacks.

Be it from the main guns or torps of ships or the bombs and torps from fighter bombers, a Destroyer generally won't live past it's first hit by anything but the lightest of deck guns. And no nation would build such ships if they had no chance of ever returning to port from any battle they might be engaged with. Unlike Cruisers, Battleships, or Carriers (or even Submarines), the Destroyer's life depends quite literally on its speed and ability to avoid being hit.