Cult Spells

[gamesmeister]

One thing I've never been very sure of over the years is who Gloranthan cults are willing to teach their spells to. This never really bothered me when I played RQ 20+ years ago, but as I'm trying to take a slightly more mature approach to my role playing these days I thought I'd ask

For example, in some earlier RQ books, it states that cults require a person to be a Lay Member of the cult before they teach that person any spirit spells (the equivalent of MRQ rune spells).

Given that every PC and NPC will want to know the Heal spell if possible, would cults such as Chalana Arroy or Erissa teach it to them in return for a simple payment? Or would they insist that the character join the cult in some form before teaching him or her the spell? What about associated cult members?

 

[TRose]

For many people they would learn heal spells from the local Grain Goddess or Ernalda, as heal is listed as one of their spells. and others could be taught by a local shaman also.

 

[Voriof]

I believe CoG specifically states that initiates may learn the cults spells of all associated cults (and that an initiate or better of one member of a pantheon is considered a lay member of all other cults of that pantheon).

Jeff

 

[CharlieMonster]

I believe CoG specifically states that initiates may learn the cults spells of all associated cults (and that an initiate or better of one member of a pantheon is considered a lay member of all other cults of that pantheon).

It does indeed in the section on Initiate Benefits - Rune Magic

 

[soltakss]

Also, the idea of Common Magic, from HQ, is useful. In RQ terms, you'd get magic that is common in your culture. So, someone from Dragon Pass would commonly be able to get different magic from someone in Prax or Dagori Inkarth.

It's never really been developed in RQ terms. Perhaps it should be.

 

[fruitsoftheforest]

Given that every PC and NPC will want to know the Heal spell if possible, would cults such as Chalana Arroy or Erissa teach it to them in return for a simple payment? Or would they insist that the character join the cult in some form before teaching him or her the spell? What about associated cult members?

In addition to this - who would supply the necessary fertility rune? One might assume that the grain goddesses have a fair number of these in their temples but would they give them out to non-cultists - (even those from the same pantheon) or would you need to bring your own?

 

[Voriof]

Also, the idea of Common Magic, from HQ, is useful. In RQ terms, you'd get magic that is common in your culture. So, someone from Dragon Pass would commonly be able to get different magic from someone in Prax or Dagori Inkarth.

It's never really been developed in RQ terms. Perhaps it should be.

I believe it is discussed in Magic of Glorantha. Personally, I would let an initiate of a cult be assumed to have a non-funky-power-providing intergration of his cult's runes.

Jeff

 

[TRose]

I never really worried about people learning spells. After all its in both Chalana Arroy and the Grain Goddess interest for the clan warriors to know heal spells. Or otherwise those nasty broo/ guys from the next tribe can visit and muck things up. As long as the players are in good standing with their Tribe,Clan or Nation, some body I feel will be willing to teach them any spell they want as its in their communities best interest for its warriors to be the best they can be.

 

[simonh]

I never really worried about people learning spells. After all its in both Chalana Arroy and the Grain Goddess interest for the clan warriors to know heal spells.

To pick nits, it's in the cult's interests. The goddesses themselves are a bit beyond such muddled up mortal concerns. But for Chalana Arroy, many in the cult will be very unhappy with what the warriors get up to. IMHO they really are out-and-out pacifists.

 

[weasel_fierce]

Im following the approach that the spells indicated as being taught by a cult can indeed be taught, regardless of runes. If you take this route though, you have to buy the runecasting skill as an advanced skill. If you later find the rune, you get +10 to it (I like the idea of finding runes as "magic items" and still want to maintain that)

 

[Exubae]

Personally, I would let an initiate of a cult be assumed to have a non-funky-power-providing intergration of his cult's runes.

We've been running with this and using theology as the casting roll - it works ok.
The character can cast any cult spell or those spells requiring the runes owned by the cult with their Theology skill.
If the character leaves the cult the charcater loses the ability to cast those spells until they integrate the corrrect rune or join another cult that shares the runes. But they retain the spell.

I would have thought any cult would provide their cult Rune spells and skills to those who follow the same pantheon so long as those seeking the spell/skill are not of opposed out-look (Humakt and Chalana Arroy) and of the same culture/ side - (I say side, as there is no way are opposed clans going to teach some one they're closed to feuding with magic), there is going to a pecking order of priority...i.e. they wait till every one of higher rank has be taught, and pay a little extra.

 

[Halfbat]

The character can cast any cult spell or those spells requiring the runes owned by the cult with their Theology skill.
If the character leaves the cult the charcater loses the ability to cast those spells until they integrate the corrrect rune or join another cult that shares the runes. But they retain the spell.

A neat approach. Presumably when they finally integrate the Rune and get the new Runecasting skill they have no option of casting the spell other than through that rather than the previous Lore(Theology) (assumes things are slightly different in each type of casting, I guess).

 

[BClegg]

I never really worried about people learning spells. After all its in both Chalana Arroy and the Grain Goddess interest for the clan warriors to know heal spells. Or otherwise those nasty broo/ guys from the next tribe can visit and muck things up. As long as the players are in good standing with their Tribe,Clan or Nation, some body I feel will be willing to teach them any spell they want as its in their communities best interest for its warriors to be the best they can be.

Ah, but in present day USA it is in everyone's best interest to provide healthcare to the indigent at reasonable rates. But does this happen? I'm sure the earth priestesses are only too happy to be paid for their training classes.

 

[simonh]

I would have thought any cult would provide their cult Rune spells and skills to those who follow the same pantheon so long as those seeking the spell/skill are not of opposed out-look

Yes, but not at cult discount rates. IMHO individual members of the cult would sell their services privately as trainers at full price, with their temple taking a heavy cut.

 

[frogspawner]

Cults of Prax says Chalana Arroy used to have Befuddle as a cult spell, but unwise teaching let it be used for attack (by RQ3, even Krarsht had it - horrors!), so CA are keen not to repeat the error. The 'free market' is not always a good thing...

Using anything other than Runecasting skill for 'rune' spell-casting would be a serious divergence from the MRQ rules - and it's probably not necessary. If joining a cult gives enough linkage to the cult runes to learn related spells, then it can be enough to gain the relevant Runecasting skills too.

 

[soltakss]

Using anything other than Runecasting skill for 'rune' spell-casting would be a serious divergence from the MRQ rules - and it's probably not necessary. If joining a cult gives enough linkage to the cult runes to learn related spells, then it can be enough to gain the relevant Runecasting skills too.

Orlanth gets Skybolt, which is a Chaos Rune spell.

We have several choices:

1. Skybolt is also a Air/Storm Rune Spell as well as a Chaos spell (nice combo)

2. Orlanth doesn't get Skybolt

3. Orlanth gets Skybolt but Orlanthi can cast it using their Lore (Orlanth Mythology)

4. Orlanth are going around integrating Chaos Runes to cast Skybolt

5. Orlanth gets Skybolt but no Orlanthi ever cast it

6. The rules weren't thought out properly, this was missed, people were working from two lists or some similar reason

Personally, I don't think that Skybolt should ever have been a Chaos Rune spell. It doesn't fit. OK, so there was a cult called the Sky Terror that the Godlearners used to play around with, which was a chaotic sky god and may well have had Sky Bolt, but that doesn't mean that it is a suitable spell for the Chaos Rune.

So, make Skybolt am Air/Storm Rune spell, that way Orlanth can get it without a problem.

In any case, this single example is illustration that the rules on Runecasting and the cults we have just don't fit together very well at all. So, something needs doing.

 

[Rurik]

You forgot:

7. Strike Skybolt from existence.

That spell has been a source of trouble since the core rules were first released, long before any Gloranthan books were out. I for one would not miss it at all.

 

[soltakss]

That makes for more errors in Cults I and I'm trying to keep Jeff from getting RSI writing his errata.

 

[simonh]

Me too, I vote #7. Skybolt is a menace, with no redeeming features worth saving.

 

[Rurik]

Me too, I vote #7. Skybolt is a menace, with no redeeming features worth saving.

While not at all intending to rescind my suggestion to strike the spell, I will say I will always consider the ability to reduce someone/something to a pile of smoldering ashes a redeeming factor. :wink: