CSC errata -- Snub weapon ranges

[far-trader]

...Same as for a normal gun.

Enough.

<buzzz>

Wrong. Not "same as for a normal gun". It has a flatter trajectory. Go ahead, try it sometime :roll:

 

[DFW]

...Same as for a normal gun.

Enough.

<buzzz>

Wrong. Not "same as for a normal gun". It has a flatter trajectory. Go ahead, try it sometime :roll:

Sorry, the drop still happens the same. It is a function of total flight time (velocity & range to target). Physics is inescapable. It is irrelevant whether the velocity is from initial launch or, thrust in flight... UNLESS, there is flight control. Which the bullets don't have, as I correctly pointed out earlier.

 

[rust]

I think the gentlemen have a semantics problem ...

While it is true that a gyrojet projectile has a flatter trajectory
than a rifle projectile, the gyrojet projectile is still influenced
by the gravity, which is why its trajectory is not entirely flat.

I once downloaded the formula for the trajectory of a rocket
propelled grenade, and it included g as a factor for the calcu-
lation of the trajectory.

 

[hdan]

CSC gives recoil to Gauss weapons, though not a lot of recoil. (Recoil 0 for most of them, -1 for the army model gauss pistol, and 1 for the MagRail rifle.)

Yes, I read that. Totally incorrect. The recoil exerted on the weapon is equal and opposite to the force moving the "slug".

I don't claim it's right, I was just trying to "pay back" Far-Trader, who requested the recoil status of Gauss weapons in CSC.

But having said that, if you accelerate the round over the entire length of the barrel at a constant rate instead of all in one blast, the kick should be lower (that is, the instantaneous jerk (aka delta-acceleration) can be smoothed out). Though I suspect that the velocities are high enough and the barrels short enough that there would not be any practical difference in shooter experience.

From a zero-g perspective you're still out of luck though, because at the end of it all, "equal and opposite" will get you.

 

[DFW]

Though I suspect that the velocities are high enough and the barrels short enough that there would not be any practical difference in shooter experience.

From a zero-g perspective you're still out of luck though, because at the end of it all, "equal and opposite" will get you.

Correct. Given that the velocity is MUCH higher than a normal rifle (at least looking at damage and pen) the recoil would be at least the same, if not more.

 

[atpollard]

Absolutely. Though at a reduction in range and damage of course. That said the snub weapons are already low velocity to that degree with appropriate (a guess but it seems to be ok) range and damage reduction, but they are still not recoilless. Suited to low-G perhaps, but zero-G no. I'm not sure MgT has got the whole recoil thing right, or more that they haven't explained it well. Strength is a poor model to work it on. Skill would be better. A 50kg weakling with a proper stance and braced will deal with recoil a lot better than a body builder firing off balance with no support.

And you could just make the weapon heavier to compensate for felt recoil.

This made me wonder how much recoil we were actually worrying about.

Start with a bullet - 11.43×23mm (45 ACP) 15 gram = 0.015 kg (230 grain) Federal Hydra-Shok with a muzzle velocity of 270 m/s.
Momentum = mass x velocity = 0.015 x 270 = 4.05 kg-m/s
Add a Cosmonaut - 100 kg (including vacc suit and equipment)
Conservation of momentum = 4.05 kg-m/s / 100 kg = 0.0405 m/s

So the shooter will ‘fall’ away from the bullet at about 4 centimeters per second and strike the wall with a force equal to falling 82 microns (0.082 mm) on earth. The most important aspect of zero G combat is knowing where your center of mass is so that you will not spin. The recoil forces are almost trivial.

 

[DFW]

The most important aspect of zero G combat is knowing where your center of mass is so that you will not spin. The recoil forces are almost trivial.

Which for a man is the hip area. So, unless you are "shooting from the hip"...

 

[atpollard]

The most important aspect of zero G combat is knowing where your center of mass is so that you will not spin. The recoil forces are almost trivial.

Which for a man is the hip area. So, unless you are "shooting from the hip"...

In zeroG with an aiming laser ... why not?
You could also stand on the wall and shoot straight "up", then the recoil gently holds you 'down'.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Egil, my man, why so much hating on the CSC?! I know it has some issues and really needs a helping of errata, but it's a great book overall! ;-)

It's got far too many issues, basically it should have been done properly, not published as a draft version.

Basically, I could have done better myself , and having to virtually re-write it means I have anyway!

Egil

 

[apoc527]

Wow, this thread took off. Does anyone find the accelerator pistol to be underpowered at 2d6-2? I'd think if the ammo is the same as the accelerator carbine, it should do the same 3d6-2 damage. Agreed? (accelerator weapons are gyrocs, as described in the excerpt above).