Could B5 be played on a Hex Map?

[Kaizen Zanshin]

I've been doing Demos at a Gaming Club on Mondays and one of the major things I hear is that they would prefer to play on a Hex map if they have a choice. Right now they are measuring. I can see that measuring at first would slow things down a touch.

Using Hex's would make it easier to measure. The major problem I'm running into when considering the fact that turning now is 60 degees as opposed to 45. You also can't do a direct side flank (like a T-Bone) ie you can move vertically but not horizontally. It also screws with the firing arcs as well.

I don't think this would work too well, but I would like to hear from others as well and see if they have attempted this.

Thanks!

 

[Voronesh]

I havent attempted it, but only thinking about boresights makes my head hurt. They would either be far too weak, or get a great bonus if they actually get an area to fire at.......Sry cant be more of a help.

 

[DHarris]

I recently played a game on a hex mat and it worked out fairly well. Excellent way to learn the basic mechanics but after a game or two would want to go to measuring just for the reasons already stated.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The old Babylon 5 Wars and Fleet Action games were played on hex grids. Personally I despise them and I'd never play such a game. I'm only looking at Classic BattleTech because it has hex-less rules too...

 

[Greg Smith]

It probably wouldn't be that difficult to do mechanically.

Speeds wouldn't change.

Turning could be converted:
1/45 = 1/60
2/45 = 2/60
1/90 = 1/120
2/90 = 2/120
This gives ships with 90 degree turns a bit more of an advantage than they previously had.

Firing arcs: for simplicity front would become 60 degrees, while the sides would be 120 degrees, unless you wanted to create a hex map for arcs that was closer to 90 degrees.

Boresights would, as Voronesh says, are problematic. They have a big advantage because they are a hex wide, but they could be extremely problematic to line up, if a ship can't line up on a certain hex.

Fighters: these would need some trying out. You may need to allow them to stack. You might want to reduce standard fighter ranges to 1 hex and anti-fighter the same.

I think it would need some testing. It wouldn't be impossible.

-----
I can see the game losing a lot of the finese of the miniatures game - it may no longer be possible to make careful turns to put one ship in the front arc and a second in the side arc.

 

[Locutus9956]

It COULD but I dont really see the point, if measuring 'slows the game down' that much Id say your being far too fussy about it, we generally move and declare what were doing to save arguing about whats in arc or how far such and such has moved (eg: say:'I move my Omega up to 15" range and turn to boresight that Primus' then if youve actually moved up to 15.3 inches range it doesnt matter since your opponent has accepted that you have moved to 15" and its just a tiny error (as long as you do actually HAVE the range))

In all honesty if you need hexes to solve measuring disputes Id suggest someone needs to lighten up a bit, it's only a game after all.

Lastly, if youre going to go hexes and so on then frankly your better off playing B5Wars (I still actually think B5Wars is a better game than ACTA its just a much SLOWER game)

 

[Green_Knight]

Another thing to try out with hexmove:

Movent-Planning, each players plans his moves and notes
them down secretly. After all have done their move,
all show them and move their ships.

This could lead to interesting results.

 

[Nomad]

Another thing to try out with hexmove:

Movent-Planning, each players plans his moves and notes
them down secretly. After all have done their move,
all show them and move their ships.

This could lead to interesting results.

Thus eliminatig tactics. This exact feature is the worst single thing about Full Thrust.

 

[H]

Another thing to try out with hexmove:

Movent-Planning, each players plans his moves and notes
them down secretly. After all have done their move,
all show them and move their ships.

This could lead to interesting results.

Thus eliminatig tactics. This exact feature is the worst single thing about Full Thrust.

hmmm, well, umm, your LGS might start stocking full thrust instead of ACTA soon!

 

[bridge26]

While you could play it on a hex map i agree with some of the above, i dont see the need to do it.
Just measuring and placing works purfectly well.

Haveing played things like Battletech which reley on the hex system i prefer the free measure method.

 

[Locutus9956]

Another thing to try out with hexmove:

Movent-Planning, each players plans his moves and notes
them down secretly. After all have done their move,
all show them and move their ships.

This could lead to interesting results.

Thus eliminatig tactics. This exact feature is the worst single thing about Full Thrust.

Im sorry WHAT?!?

Knock planned moves for the bookeeping and slowing of play I can understand but to say it eliminates tactics is just ubelievable!

If by 'tactics' you mean the ability to react immediately to your opponents every action then yes I suppose it does. The point with planning your moves out simultaneously is that you only plan them out for a short sections of movement. You REACT to your oppoents PREVIOUS move and current position, and part of the tactics comes as it would in reality in trying to outTHINK your opponent and predict their next move not just waiting to see what they do every turn and react to it.

Now if you would like to justify how exactly you think this 'removes tactics' I'd be happy to hear you out but from where Im standing planned moves only take tactics out if it requires you to plan too far ahead.

And I'm sorry but Full Thrust is a WAAAAAAY better game than ACTA. I love both and I tend to play ACTA more because theres more players and, well, its B5, but Full Thrusts simultaneous secret moves make it far MORE tactical. Tactics require thought and cunning not just looking where your opponent is now and reacting acordingly.....

 

[Locutus9956]

While you could play it on a hex map i agree with some of the above, i dont see the need to do it.
Just measuring and placing works purfectly well.

Haveing played things like Battletech which reley on the hex system i prefer the free measure method.

Overall both systems have their merits to be honest, but I just dont really see the point of trying to impose one on a system that uses the other. If you make it hex based your not really playing ACTA any more imho since it does change the way things maneuver quite dramatically (and weapon arcs to boot) and similarly Battletech without the hexes I dont actually think works as well, so much of the system is designed around the hex map (and initiative sinking works alot better if you have a limited array of movement as per hexes allowing your opponent to guess a bit better (thats actually the one area ACTA might benefit from hexes (well that and boresights....) Personally, I HATE initiative sinking, it just doesnt feel right and gives too much advantage to smaller ships which ALREADY generally have the advantage in overall surviveability and firepower.

 

[Burger]

I have to say that secret moves does seem like a good idea, and does not eliminate tactics at all. I've never played Full Thrust but I have played Crimson Skies a looooong time ago and the secret moves in that were really fun. Especially when you landed in the same hex as your ally and had to make collision tests :lol:

 

[Locutus9956]

You should give it a go sometime, its really very simple to learn and is availalble as a free PDF download

Theres more advanced rules for vector movement which is a bit more complex (and not everyones cup of tea) but either way its a great game

 

[Green_Knight]

don't misunderstand me. I don't want ACTA to be changed that
way. We were thinking about playing ACTA on a hexgrid is
possible.

So my further thought was to give it a try for secret moves in a
fun game without getting in a totally new system.

Boresights would be useful then, again, cause you can cover an
corridor of hexes were you think enemies might move in.

And yes, i know the ships wouldn't be of the same use as in
original version. But we don't care and for a fun one off game it
would be irrelevant.

 

[Taran]

For firing arcs, do it the same as with CBT.
Hex-grids have the great benefit of simplicity. But with games where the units/models are actually scaled in size to one another, taking it off the hexes is probably best.
I know someone else mentioned the mini-rules for CBT, but as the models are Not scaled to each other, they aren't as good in implementation as you might think.

 

[Bostich]

Another thing to try out with hexmove:

Movent-Planning, each players plans his moves and notes
them down secretly. After all have done their move,
all show them and move their ships.

This could lead to interesting results.

Thus eliminating tactics. This exact feature is the worst single thing about Full Thrust.

Please stop butchering the meaning of tactics:

tac·tics (tăk'tĭks) pronunciation
n.
1.
1. (used with a sing. verb) The military science that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in effective maneuvers against an enemy: Tactics is a required course at all military academies.
2. (used with a pl. verb) Maneuvers used against an enemy: Guerrilla tactics were employed during most of the war.
2. (used with a sing. or pl. verb) A procedure or set of maneuvers engaged in to achieve an end, an aim, or a goal.

A hex grid in no way eliminates tactics.. it would change them however.

 

[Kaizen Zanshin]

Thanks for all the interest guys! It is mostly what I thought it would be. I actually prefer no grid as it allows for a more free movement - "I want to stop after 3"; OH I can't because I'll be in-between hexes". That sort of thing - plus the boresight issue. Not to mention the board as a whole looks cleaner.

The measuring is slowing people down because there are a couple of anal guys I was reffing/teaching. They had to measure every 5 seconds. I'm certain that once they learn more they will move faster.

So I'm going to stay with no grid. Thanks!

 

[Burger]

The measuring is slowing people down because there are a couple of anal guys I was reffing/teaching. They had to measure every 5 seconds. I'm certain that once they learn more they will move faster.

One thing we considered (mainly as a joke) is a pair of chess clocks, so each person has a fixed time to make their move. Take too long and that ship forfeits its movement (forced to All Stop)

 

[Silvereye]

You'd probably be better moving it as if adrift instead. Half movement straight forward as the helm control waits for instructions.