Core Computers in Non Capital Ships

[PsiTraveller]

If budget was not a factor, is it possible in RAW to install a Core size computer in a non-capital ship? The rating 35 of a TL computer for 30 MCr gives a +5 Dm or control of 5 turrets.
For any ship over 500 tons it may be better to spend more money on computers and software to increase the attack rating on all the turrets.
Example:
A better option might be to spend the 30 Million and get a Core 60 computer with a 60 rating and then get Advanced Fire 3 at a 40 rating to give a +3Dm to all turrets.

Or could you run Fire Control 5 (25 rating), twice on a Core computer and spread the +10 DM across the turrets that you have.

The way the computers and software are split right now makes for some odd limitations.

If the Fire Control system can be run on Core computers then buying the TL 15 Core 100 and running 4 Fire Control 5's could grant +5 bonuses to 4 different turrets. This could help SDB's generate Crits from Effect 6+ rolls.
And then the next question of course is, if upping the software bonus is possible, what are the counters to it to balance things out?

 

[Nerhesi]

This is an open item. About Core computers in non-capital ships. Generally, the last discussion was just about making budget the only thing that matters for Computer types.

With that however, we need clarity and tweaking to make sure that Core computers were generally a cut above in ability, and magnitudes above in cost

 

[PsiTraveller]

First edition High guard had a tonnage and Jump requirement (pg 65 of High Guard first edition). Second edition does not have that.

Personally I would be willing to pay in cash and some tonnage if need be to install a computer system able to give bonuses to hit to help me make the Crit Effect of 6+ on a weapon Hit. Heck I would put two regular computers and have the backup run a second Fire control 5 to boost a turret attack up by 5 to help that. If you can generate 2 or 3 Criticals a turn you could have a real chance of creating a cascade failure in the enemy ship. multiple hits on the same system may make it no repairable in combat (pg 161 under Repair System)

Most of the time, for smaller ships the damage being done will be in the 10 to 20 ish points a hit. Missiles are being reworked but turret weapons do 2D to 4D at closer range.

I've realized a strategy of generating Crits may end combats faster. Each ship will need a score card to track where hits are, and you are really hoping to get multiple hits on the same location before they can be repaired. You also want a turn in between hits and hope that the enemy repairs a Critical, only to have it re-damaged, it cannot be repaired again until the ship leaves combat.

So a 2D Pulse Laser at long range attacks, adding +2 for Gunner skill, + +5 DM for Fire control 5 help adds 7 to the attack roll, and generates an Effect of 6 for a Pulse Laser with an Average roll of 7.
Add the 6 Effect to the 7 average damage and you get 13 damage, divided by 10 is 1.3. The book says to round up, so is that a Severity 2 Crit or a Severity 1 hit?? If it is Severity 2 it will likely do another 7 points to the Hull using an average 7 result for location and damage. Any hit by any other weapon that hits the hull gets bumped up to Severity 3 for 3D more Hull damage. Other Criticals with Severity 2 disable weapons and blind Sensors past medium. You may be able to get a free shot in next turn since they cannot see you. (That is a good question actually.... what happens when Sensors are offline, can weapons be targeted at ships beyond sensor range? )

Anything that can get a Severity level to bump up starts to really damage the performance of the enemy. Running software to get aids, augments for your crew, it is all worth it. Multiple Criticals per round can start to really eat into the Hull through sympathetic Crits at level 5 Severity. Getting to Severity 6 Hull starts doing 6D extra damage per Crit.

So that is why I am trying to generate any bonus I can for the attack roll and Effect result. It can finish a ship off in only a few rounds if you get lucky.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Yes, a swarm of 100t "fighters" can kill any larger ship, such as a battleship, with just crits. It makes late warships unattractive...
Smaller fighters can do it even easier, but they have to get to Close range first.

 

[Nerhesi]

Yeah I'm not sure we want to improve to get even more bonuses to hit. I keep saying, stop adding to-hit bonuses! We have enough!

Instinctively, I'd want computers to basically be:
Comp/1 to Comp/7 (5 bandwidth per level. Cost is 1.5^level for example).
Then Core computers cane pick up after rating 35, but as a significantly higher cost.

 

[PsiTraveller]

My thought/issue was that a Fire control 5 program can run 5 turrets, or aid in the gunnery roll of a sophont controlled station. A thousand ton ship has 10 turrets, so Fire Control 5 does not help run everything.

The other option is to ask can Advanced Fire Control2 , bandwidth 30 be used on a Computer 30+ or is the software 'Core Computer' compatible only? Having a thousand ton ship with ten manned turrets getting +2 to their attacks helps.

Or Virtual Gunner.

It makes more sense to put a 12 million Credit, Core 40 computer into a smaller ship and run Virtual Gunner than it does to have a crew. Even if it takes some tonnage space.
There seems to be a disconnect between computer control and staffing and the cost curve of the systems, that's all I am wondering about.

 

[Nerhesi]

My thought/issue was that a Fire control 5 program can run 5 turrets, or aid in the gunnery roll of a sophont controlled station. A thousand ton ship has 10 turrets, so Fire Control 5 does not help run everything.

The other option is to ask can Advanced Fire Control2 , bandwidth 30 be used on a Computer 30+ or is the software 'Core Computer' compatible only? Having a thousand ton ship with ten manned turrets getting +2 to their attacks helps.

Or Virtual Gunner.

It makes more sense to put a 12 million Credit, Core 40 computer into a smaller ship and run Virtual Gunner than it does to have a crew. Even if it takes some tonnage space.
There seems to be a disconnect between computer control and staffing and the cost curve of the systems, that's all I am wondering about.

Agreed. Software is just a rating/bandwidth and cost game. That's it. I believe Core Computers to just be a cost game. Whether it is a tablet or a super computer, size shouldn't matter much

I don't see anything military over 1k tons using non-core computers for the reasons you cite above. Perhaps for logic's sake we should limit the regular firecontrol bonus to barbette's and smaller, to avoid the "why can't I have a +5 to all weapons software?"

 

[phavoc]

Some of this gear should require commensurate sensor suites to be installed, as your 'basic' sensor suite may not have the ability to do anything with/for the uprated computer capabilities.

I would say if you had capital-class computer power in a non-capital ship you should at least be required to have military-grade sensors or greater.

 

[Nerhesi]

Some of this gear should require commensurate sensor suites to be installed, as your 'basic' sensor suite may not have the ability to do anything with/for the uprated computer capabilities.

I would say if you had capital-class computer power in a non-capital ship you should at least be required to have military-grade sensors or greater.

What? I can't link my advanced battle computer targeting data-feed based on a webcam attached to an iron-sight?!?! Shenanigans!

 

[AndrewW]

What? I can't link my advanced battle computer targeting data-feed based on a webcam attached to an iron-sight?!?! Shenanigans!

Only if that iron-sight is a Norden.

 

[AndrewW]

I would say if you had capital-class computer power in a non-capital ship you should at least be required to have military-grade sensors or greater.

Not all functions would require sensors. What if you wanted to use it's advanced VR capabilities to simulate the Mongoose Traveller 3001 edition environment?

 

[phavoc]

Some of this gear should require commensurate sensor suites to be installed, as your 'basic' sensor suite may not have the ability to do anything with/for the uprated computer capabilities.

I would say if you had capital-class computer power in a non-capital ship you should at least be required to have military-grade sensors or greater.

What? I can't link my advanced battle computer targeting data-feed based on a webcam attached to an iron-sight?!?! Shenanigans!

Is that a cold iron sight, or a electro-optical gee-whiz sight?

 

[phavoc]

I would say if you had capital-class computer power in a non-capital ship you should at least be required to have military-grade sensors or greater.

Not all functions would require sensors. What if you wanted to use it's advanced VR capabilities to simulate the Mongoose Traveller 3001 edition environment?

Well, if you were doing something INSIDE of the ship then I would say that you are right. In the case of Traveller 3001 edition, there's a flush button for that...

 

[FallingPhoenix]

Some of this gear should require commensurate sensor suites to be installed, as your 'basic' sensor suite may not have the ability to do anything with/for the uprated computer capabilities.

I would say if you had capital-class computer power in a non-capital ship you should at least be required to have military-grade sensors or greater.

What? I can't link my advanced battle computer targeting data-feed based on a webcam attached to an iron-sight?!?! Shenanigans!

Is that a cold iron sight, or a electro-optical gee-whiz sight?

I thought cold iron sights were for anti-fey rifles...

 

[Condottiere]

I like the guttersnipe sight.

 

[ErinPalette]

So here's a question based on a test combat I had last game session:

I have a TL 14 SDB that is built by the Zhodani Consulate, so money isn't an issue. Can I stick a Core/90 computer into that 500 dton hull for no tonnage?

Because if so, that SDB has just become a hell of a lot meaner:

* Fire Control/5 = 25 bandwidth
* Advanced Fire Control/2 = 40 bw
* Battle System/2 = 15 bw

With 10 left over for things like Evade, Auto Repair, etc.

Oh, another question: Can a computer with sufficient bandwidth run a program more than once? IE can a Core/90 run Fire Control/5 three times, giving +5 to three separate attacks or +15 to one?

 

[PsiTraveller]

RAW right now does not have the same tonnage restriction on Core computers that first edition had. So instead of needing a 3000 ton ship minimum for a Core 40 computer you may be able to put in a Core computer into your 500 ton SDB. (First edition High guard page 65 is where the core computer and tonnage chart is)

I don't know how multiple programs can influence the same shot. I like the idea from a player perspective but as a Gm I would not allow it, but that's IMTU. +5 for Fire Control max, but the Advanced Fire control software would stack as written. So that would give a +7 plus your Gunner's stats to the roll.

Running a couple of Fire Control 5 programs could have you hitting tough to hit targets each turn. Assign those programs to your main weapons.

If big computers can be put into smaller ships I think most military designers would jump at it. It is cheaper than the non-Core systems, and does more.

 

[Nerhesi]

I wouldn't allow any stacking of anything - whether same software or otherwise. +8 is a little ridiculous... we do need clarity though. I would think either Fire Control or Advanced Fire Control... so a +3 to every shot, or up to a +5 to one.

I would allow running both but not combining both.

I would definitely not allow the same software.. otherwise I'm just running multiple evasion softwares on my fighters until they get into dogfight range and then "win the game!"

 

[PsiTraveller]

I just read the Advanced Fire Control software description.
"Advanced Fire Control: The basic Fire Control packages available to most ships (see the Traveller Core Rulebook, page 151) are suitable for small ships with a handful of turrets, but they quickly surpass their capabilities on larger vessels with multiple weapon systems. Advanced Fire Control software utilises the greater processing potential of capital ships to create an entire offensive network that increases the efficiency of gunnery crew. Note that Advanced Fire Control does not allow a ship’s computer to fire any weapons itself, merely increasing the accuracy of those who do.

All weapons mounted upon the ship gain a DM to their attack rolls equal to the Advanced Fire Control package’s score (so, Advanced Fire Control/2 grants DM+2 to all attack rolls)."

The last line was where i figure the 2 programs would stack, the weapon gets the +2DM to the attack roll.

Fire Control states: "Allows the computer to fire a number of turrets per round equal to the listed number. Alternatively, it can give a positive DM to an attack equal to the listed number, or any combination of the two. For example, a ship with Fire Control/3 could make three attacks, or give a +3 DM to an attack, or make one attack with a +2 DM."

I think there is a typo in the Fire Control section personally, the last line to me should read "or make one attack with a +2 and another with a +1 DM." The bonuses add up to 3 for a Gunner, or the computer fires 3 weapons on its own without any bonuses.

So would a Gunner get +7 with Fire Control 5 and Advanced Fire Control 2 operating on a Core Computer? You have spent 45 Million Credits in software (3 Fire Control 5's at 10 each, and 15 for the Advanced Fire 2), and another 100 Million on a Core 90 computer. For that kind of money you SHOULD be able to get something pretty good. You've spent more on the software than most Large bay weapons.

 

[ErinPalette]

I'm just going to point out that there's nothing in the rules that says you can't stack Fire Control programs if you have the bandwidth... so if folks find that objectionable, maybe that ought to be fixed before going to print?