Control surfaces used by Trav spacecraft in atmosphere
- Thread starter F33D
- Start date
Greylond said:Just because you are using anti-grav to get down doesn't negate crosswinds. Ask any pilot about winds at altitude...
Crosswinds are a problem only for landing a craft that is gliding in using wings or other lifting surfaces (unless the winds are REALLY monstrously strong). I'm a pilot. Crosswinds at altitude are only problematic because you have keep your nose pointed in a certain direction because, you have wings providing lift. Otherwise, a brick suspended by anti-grav would be much EASIER to pilot up/down & side to side.
Have you flown aircraft?
F33D said:
No, but my brother is a pilot(he solo'ed at 16) and have several friends that are also. Still doesn't make sense. Anti-grav only moves you up and down. You're telling me a floating brick, or descending brick isn't going to be moved around by the wind? If so, remind me never to fly with you...
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
F33D said:Greylond said:Just because you are using anti-grav to get down doesn't negate crosswinds. Ask any pilot about winds at altitude...
Crosswinds are a problem only for landing a craft that is gliding in using wings or other lifting surfaces (unless the winds are REALLY monstrously strong). I'm a pilot. Crosswinds at altitude are only problematic because you have keep your nose pointed in a certain direction because, you have wings providing lift. Otherwise, a brick suspended by anti-grav would be much EASIER to pilot up/down & side to side.
Have you flown aircraft?
Blimps have problems with crosswinds and they do not use lifting surfaces.
HOWEVER, in general I agree with your assessment. Using contra-gravity, you should be able to land ANYTHING - Eventually. You may have to move through the Atmo as 1-2 kph, but even then it is only a few hours to orbit.
Traveller has a problem with CG, they don't think through the implications. A Distributed Hull using CG should be able to land/float at surface level - as long as the CG is kept on. Turn it off and you have so much scrap.
Except for the problem of entering the atmosphere.
And then that would work for a landing on a flat surface as long as you didn't care where you landed. Counter-Grav only takes you up and down. Winds would blow you away from your landing zone. Using the manuever engines would allow you some control but you're claiming that a flying brick has the same atmospheric performance as a streamlined craft...
The rules are pretty plain that there is a -2 DM for any operations in atmosphere for a Standard Hull. Landing/flying/whatever, if you are in Atmo, you take the DM...
And then that would work for a landing on a flat surface as long as you didn't care where you landed. Counter-Grav only takes you up and down. Winds would blow you away from your landing zone. Using the manuever engines would allow you some control but you're claiming that a flying brick has the same atmospheric performance as a streamlined craft...
The rules are pretty plain that there is a -2 DM for any operations in atmosphere for a Standard Hull. Landing/flying/whatever, if you are in Atmo, you take the DM...
F33D said:
Keep reading my post. A Flying Brick is simply not going to be as controllable as a streamlined aircraft.
Let me ask it another way. If there isn't any DM difference between a Streamlined Hull and a Standard Hull, then what's the purpose of a Streamlined Hull?
Again, the rules are pretty plain in the writing...
Greylond said:
I did. You still don't understand that grav drives take the ship in ANY direction. Performing wild maneuvers would be out sans control surfaces. But, moving in whatever direction (up/down, forward/backward, side to side) you desire is only hampered by the G level of the drive and any high winds. Wings and control surfaces enable faster deceleration, loops, rolls, etc. But, they also subject a craft to wind induced turbulence (air hitting the the lifting surfaces at inconvenient vectors)
Also, the ship that more streamlined will have a higher speed in atmosphere. So, performing actions that require lift surfaces gains you a -2 to pilot checks for the spherical craft . Any action NOT requiring lift surfaces (note to non-pilots, all aircraft control surfaces use "lift" except speed brakes) has no problem...
rust said:
Yes, just think of it as if the ship where suspended by a wire. But, wires connecting at any point required and being "pulled" by them when needing to move. Subject to the total G force of the drive. So, if a 1G drive on a .5 G world. .5 (1/2) the drives power is taken up holding altitude and .5 G is available for movement in any direction.
rust said:
Atmospheric effects when crossing the into an atmosphere from orbit are pretty strong. Look up anything dealing with the forces involved in reentry to an atmosphere and you'll understand. There's a lot more involved than just decreasing your distance to the ground.
Then there's the high altitude winds to deal with. What we see on the ground isn't the same as what craft at high altitude deal with.
Greylond said:
If you enter stationary (in respect the a point on the surface) they are negligible. With grav drives (higher than the planets G force) you don't need to enter the atmosphere "at orbital speed". You simply slow to zero relative speed to the rotation of the planet. I asked an SR-71 pilot about winds at altitude (up to space). The highest encountered are the jet streams. A couple hundred knots...
