Concerns About Fedayeen

[The Old Soldier]

Fedayeen rule for SVU sniper rifle: The SVU gains a +2 bounus to its Damage Dice, against Size 1 targets only. If a Ready action is taken before it shoots, you may opt to roll its Damage Dice against any model in the Fire Zone, rather than allocate normally.

Now I may be completely wrong, but I see the potential for major screwage in this game with Snipers now. This is not even a dedicated sniper team, and yet they can if readied allocate against any model in the FZ? What were you thinking???

Since you can have up to 3 of these weapons in a Fedayeen unit, and you can have 1 fedayeen per 2 normal units, this means a HUGE potential to make the game simply no fun. Damnation!!

It should have been the centre of the FZ, if readied, and NO I say again NO bonuses against size one targets.

Instead the dedicated snipers teams could have bonuses and they should be EXTREMLY expensive or rare to compensated for major beardy tactics that comes from misuse.

Kiss this game goodbye in Tourneyment play and stick to home games with home rules to make this system from breaking down completely.

(I could be competely wrong, but I doubt it, so come on MP prove me wrong!)

 

[Cailet]

Fedayeen are Support, not Troops. Which means ytou can;t have that many of them. 1 unit for every two regulars.

And their snipers... well what do you EXPECT snipers to do? Everyone else WILL get snipers. They already have weapons that can sweep squads away and suppress them easily, the MEA need some kind of equaliser.

 

[Hiromoon]

Umm...yeah, he knows that Cailet. Heck, he even stated as such:

...you can have 1 fedayeen per 2 normal units...

And I wasn't aware that the MEA needed an equalizer....

 

[Mr Evil]

the fedyeen are a powerful unit in the game, infact id go so far to say they are their version of the SAS.

but its a funny unit, to use the snipers well you need to keep them still, to use the IED's you need to be on the move. great for oportunist fire, but from range just move your infantry int a warrior or shadow and start to pummel them from afar.

when you kill a fedyeen its another dead mea guy but to a mea player its his elite killer squad, for an mea player the fedyeen are his special forces and tank in one.

 

[Hiromoon]

Well, I'd say more like the MEA SOF guys are their elites...

These are just their more professional amateurs.

 

[The Old Soldier]

When the game gets stalled because of Sniper rifles and overpowered troops types that are Too plentiful, don't cry to me, I gave you fair warning.

Fedayeen are not supermen, they don't even compare to any SF type, they are as mentioned just amateurs that are HIGHLY motivated.

Once MEA sniper teams come out in a later wave, along with all the other snipers rifles that will be in the game, the game system will completely bog down.

I believe sniper rifles on non-dedicated sniper teams might give a bonus at best, but the firezone should used as normal with on modifications to pick the target. Dedicated teams can pick from the centre of thier FZ.

 

[Turtle]

So, did you actually play on the table with them?

 

[The Old Soldier]

Got 'em on the table right now.

 

[Paladin]

Yeah, but you can config a Fedayeen unit to have 3 snipers. If the enemy is in cover you still have three shots at 50% chance of success (4+) for instant double suppression (excluding armor checks). Take them out of cover and you have 3 shots with an 83% chance of success (anything but a 1). Throw in the Kornet and you have AT LEAST 4 kills every round.

Level of realism? Great.
Level of fun in a game? Near zero.

My turn.... ok, I just disabled your 3 squads with my two Fedayeen units. Your turn. oh wait all of your units are suppressed but your tank. Well, you can at least pick new leaders. My turn. Yikes. Your new leaders are dead, looks like you're suppressed again. huh... still nothing but the tank for you good thing my militia is in front blocking your tank. My turn...


Seems like it's going to turn into a game where the person that has initiative wins. Could be wrong though.

 

[Captain_Nemo]

Got 'em on the table right now.

And? How are they doing????

I could proxy roll the dice for them and I bet they'd suck then!

:lol:

 

[Gibbs]

If you play rules as written you don't need LOS to hit with an SVU, to be eligible they need to be within the firezone. I an see it now:

"You can't kill him, he's behind a wall"
"Look at the Fedayeen card. I readied them so now I can shoot any model within the fire zone. Sorry. rules as written."
"That's ridiculous!"

 

[BuShips]

If you play rules as written you don't need LOS to hit with an SVU, to be eligible they need to be within the firezone. I an see it now:

"You can't kill him, he's behind a wall"
"Look at the Fedayeen card. I readied them so now I can shoot any model within the fire zone. Sorry. rules as written."
"That's ridiculous!"

I don't look at it that way. Just because LOS is not mentioned doesn't mean it's skipped. The cards are meant to modify the main rules, so if something isn't specifically overridden it still applies.

 

[Hiromoon]

I bet you this will lead to all sorts of creative LOS attmepts.

 

[Gibbs]

If you play rules as written you don't need LOS to hit with an SVU, to be eligible they need to be within the firezone. I an see it now:

"You can't kill him, he's behind a wall"
"Look at the Fedayeen card. I readied them so now I can shoot any model within the fire zone. Sorry. rules as written."
"That's ridiculous!"

I don't look at it that way. Just because LOS is not mentioned doesn't mean it's skipped. The cards are meant to modify the main rules, so if something isn't specifically overridden it still applies.

Please not that I don't do this because it's not in the spirit of the game, however...

*Put on my 'rules lawyer' hat*

If you play rules as weitten, the rule does say *any* model in the fire zone. The cards override the basic rules and, failing any mention of the rules for LOS on the card, this overrides the LOS rules.

*removes hat and goes back to normal state*

The same thing is happeing with the Feds in regard to IEDs. The rule on the card is that IEDs may be planted on *aby* model size two or more with a charge action. Now some people read that to mean that you no longer have to charge an enemy model to place the IED because you are using the charge action to place an IED, thus the rules for a charge action in teh basic rules are overridden. Others would argue that the charge action rules clearly state that the target has to be an enemy model.

Sure strapping IEDs to technicals is fun but the basic principle behind the theory is exactly the same as the rules as written for the SVU. The rule on the card overrides the basic rules. I don't like it either and won't play that way but some people just might.

 

[The Old Soldier]

If you play rules as written you don't need LOS to hit with an SVU, to be eligible they need to be within the firezone. I an see it now:

"You can't kill him, he's behind a wall"
"Look at the Fedayeen card. I readied them so now I can shoot any model within the fire zone. Sorry. rules as written."
"That's ridiculous!"

I'd still have to have LOS to that model. Just like you need LOS after creating a FZ to apply Damage Dice to the models. The thing I'm really worried about is if the non-dedicated sniper models are this powerful now, once all the dedicated snipers are out things will get out of hand.

Look at it this way. Say up to 2 to 4 sniper models or teams can be taken as a support, then say you also have a unit of Fedayeen with sniper rifles. A fellow could have them both for only 4 militia units of 6 on the table. THAT my friend is sniper abuse. Of course you could counter that with lots of IFVs and Armor, or bring in snipers of your own, but I believe what will happen is the game will just bogg down, into long games of snipers.

Like I stated, I hope I'm proved wrong with time. Cover is extremely important now, as is anything that can BLOCK line of sight. Personally I would have powered down any non-dedicated sniper unit.

One tactic that can help, is to break the squads into small fireteams, so if one get in deep the other can finish off the sniper, but the problem with the Fedayeen is you must target the unit as normal, while they can target you as per model, if readied. Other tactics is to move small teams behind large vehicles if you can't cross a street in one move.

Still I think MP drop the ball with these fellows. Better to have just gave them the bonus, but not the snipeing ability. Leave that to the REAL snipers of BFE, the dedicated sniper units.

 

[Gibbs]

I'm not disagreeing with you OS but I'm just saying that I think people will abuse this rule.

 

[BuShips]

Well, I'll grant that a system that says to play the rules as written and then issues cards to modify those base rules so that "catch 22" conditions happen that contradict the rules from the cards is a system that cries out for another important part of any published rules system and that's an FAQ. :wink:

I suppose that if you realise to a high degree of confidence that the printed rules are going to be scrutinised so very carefully, then either larger cards or smaller fonts (negatory squared) are called for that add the additional words to direct the player's perception to what was intended or else the printed rules for the core game system need to have some inviolate protections to some portions (such as Line of Sight). :idea: Since that has not been done (and I do not fault them for it), this again calls for an FAQ.

 

[shmitty]

My turn.... ok, I just disabled your 3 squads with my two Fedayeen units. Your turn. oh wait all of your units are suppressed but your tank. Well, you can at least pick new leaders. My turn. Yikes. Your new leaders are dead, looks like you're suppressed again. huh... still nothing but the tank for you good thing my militia is in front blocking your tank. My turn...

Seems like it's going to turn into a game where the person that has initiative wins. Could be wrong though.

I am not sure how you would kill 3 of my leaders with 2 squads (unless I left to leaders where they were in LOS and the same FZ). But, even still you could kill to squad leaders, IF you had LOS to both with sniper models at the start of your turn. Even then, I would have the chance to react and move a model out of LOS who could be my leader. You would not just be able to pick him off next turn.

I am not trying to argue that snipers are powerful, cause they certainly are, I just think that the scenario you suggest would be rare at best and require some bad moves on the part of your opponent.

The real limiter on the selection of targets with a sniper is the requirement of readying first. That means if there is no LOS at that start of the turn, it ain't gonna happen. I already make a practice of keeping my suqad leaders out of LOS as much as possible, so I am not too sure this will be an issue.

I can see where this could be an issue, but I think an experienced general could more than compensate for it.

 

[The Old Soldier]

Just wait till the regular dedicated sniper units come out, then get back with me. :?

 

[shmitty]

IF the dedicated sniper teams are Immune to Suppression like the Fedayeen, then I could see some problems.

If not, well assuming they are small teams it should only take one MG shooting at them to cause supression. One level of suppression means no readying before the shot and no target selection. As they will have to have LOS on you at the start of their turn, you will have LOS on them if they are in a position to snipe you....so, don't give them that unless you can suppress them first. Which seems like a sound tactic to me.

What really makes the Fedayeen great at sniping is their immunity to suppression. If other snipers get that....ouch! But as the SAS snipers won't have it, things don't look too bad.

I am glad you guys brought this up and it is a good discussion. My guess is there are enough counter tactics for this to not break the game though.