[CONAN] a DEADLIER, Funnier and Varied Conan Combat

[LucaCherstich]

Combat in Conan d20 is great.
Having a Massive damage threat of 20 pts is a great thing.
HOWEVER, sometimes this is also problematic with power-players.

PROBLEM:
Massive Damage 20 pts becomes a costant objective for more expert (power)players.
With time people will do anything to deal 20 pts, but the solutions are always the same:
1) Two-handed held weapons for maximizing Str bonus to damage
2) Three main feats: Power attack(especially with 2 hands), Reckless attack, Explosive Power.
In other words, these are all ways to:
- increase damage without scoring a Critical and still give 20 pts of damage.
- Not caring so much about Attack roll (which is penalized by Power Attack) or, at least, no more than what is needed to hit the Defense value.
HOWEVER, Combat should be more dynamic, and give more tactical options to easily kill somebody.

PROPOSAL FOR A SOLUTION
Give more opportunities to have a Critical Threat.
My proposal is to:
- Keep the normal Critical Threat per weapon
- add a second opportunity to have a Critical Threat.
How can we do that?
I suggest the following:
- Score a Critical Threat (still to be confirmed) if an Attack Roll is 10 pts higher than the Defence

CONSEQUENCES
If we do that, we give a further Critical opportunity to:
- Skillfull fighters (high BAB or other bonuses to Atk Rolls)
- Finesse Fighters (always interested in scoring high Attack Rolls)
- Weapon focus chain and all the rest of similar feats with bonuses on Atk rolls.

Another consequence is that the following features will acquire great value since they raise the Defense number and therefore they protect not only from damage but also from critical threats:
- Shields
- Feats like Parry, Dodge, Combat Expertise

Furthermore, in this way some under-valued weapons will become also deadly since it will be easier to score a critical and therefore (maybe) make a Massive Damage Threat.
Exemplary in this sense are:
- the Hatchet A Simple Light Weapon which deals just 1d6....but with a Critical of x3.
- The Stilettos with their x4 criticals
- The always under-valued WarSpears with their x3 criticals.

What do you think about it?
Do you think 10 pts beyond the Defence is not enough?
Maybe 15 or 20 pts?


ADDENDUM
- The critical above are just Critical Threats which must still be confirmed.
- One a Critical is confirmed, the issue can be approached also in alternative ways, as I have tried to do here:
http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=49223

 

[Spectator]

I don't play with massive damage.
It doesn't make sense.
If hit point are "luck" and not so much the ability to absorb damage (as we are so often told, which I agree with), then the MD concept fails.
No MD, no need for extra rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

If hit point are "luck" and not so much the ability to absorb damage (as we are so often told, which I agree with), then the MD concept fails.

I think hit points have to represent actual wounds. My reasoning: The time they take to heal naturally.

I don't think, though, that the value of 1 HP is constant, among a single being or when compared to others. A blow that does 13 points of damage could be a killing, or incapcitating, blow for a novice, but mearly a bruise for a professional.

In addition, I think the MD rule is needed because it covers the times where hit points don't reflect real damage that well. For example, a freak accident where a professional fighter gets hit just the right way and dies from the blow. The fighter has 80 hp, and normally, his pretty good in the ring. But one guy got in an unlucky punch that killed him (foe had to do 20+ damage, and the fighter has to fail his save...which makes this rare).

 

[Spectator]

Conceptually you are right about the giant killer whacking the dude with one punch, but I think that is best encapsulated in the Criticals, so it is still possible for a giant killer to exist.

I like the old Warhammer FRP game where you could get multiple critical hits if you kept getting lucky with your damage and attack rolls.

Here in Conan, you only get one critical roll, but you could house game it that after you roll crit (lets say 20) and get your double damage, the GM could allow for another crit roll and if you hit a 20 you could get double damage again, ad infinitum.

This makes the game less suitable for bardiche wielding thugs and allows the David-sling wielding types get a chance against the Goliaths.

 

[Supplement Four]

Conceptually you are right about the giant killer whacking the dude with one punch, but I think that is best encapsulated in the Criticals, so it is still possible for a giant killer to exist.

How likely is it that 20 points of damage will be rolled without a critical? With certain deadly weapons, sure. But, with most weapons doing 1d10 damage, it's not likely that damage will get to 20 except on critical throws.

Plus, there's armor to consider.

I think the system is worked well. It gives the PCs chances for those single-shot killing blows while the PCs are protected from it via Fate Points.

 

[LucaCherstich]

I've seen 20 pts of dmg made with 1 hit using (or abusing) the above feats, even without considering Explosive Power (if you do not like it).

Consider:
- medium level PC (8-12 lev)
- Str bonus +4
- 2-handed held broadsword which meanst str bonus to dmg is +6
- Power Attack is doubled with 2 hands, which means -5 give +10

So we have a base dmg of 16 + 1d10....easy to get 20 pts of dmg

 

[LucaCherstich]

I've seen 20 pts of dmg made with 1 hit using (or abusing) the above feats, even without considering Explosive Power (if you do not like it).

Consider:
- medium level PC (8-12 lev)
- Str bonus +4
- 2-handed held broadsword which meanst str bonus to dmg is +6
- Power Attack is doubled with 2 hands, which means -4 give +8
-+ Maybe +2 by Reckels Attack

So we have a base dmg of 16 + 1d10....easy to get 20 pts of dmg

 

[Spectator]

I've seen 20 pts of dmg made with 1 hit using (or abusing) the above feats, even without considering Explosive Power (if you do not like it).

Consider:
- medium level PC (8-12 lev)
- Str bonus +4
- 2-handed held broadsword which meanst str bonus to dmg is +6
- Power Attack is doubled with 2 hands, which means -5 give +10

So we have a base dmg of 16 + 1d10....easy to get 20 pts of dmg

I agree it is TOO EASY, but that's not a problem if MD is discarded. No one wants to burn through 3 FPs if the get hit several times in a battle by a worthy opponent when they still have 85 HPs left.

S4, I agree that probably the final 10 HPs are life-force but your first 90HPs are luck, skill, etc...
This is shown by that a helpless character on the alter is still killed by a single dagger swipe to the neck, whether they have 9 or 90 hps to begin with. The evil priest does not need to cut the Hero 25 times (with his d4 dagger to sacrifice him).

 

[Supplement Four]

I've seen 20 pts of dmg made with 1 hit using (or abusing) the above feats, even without considering Explosive Power (if you do not like it).

Consider:
- medium level PC (8-12 lev)
- Str bonus +4
- 2-handed held broadsword which meanst str bonus to dmg is +6
- Power Attack is doubled with 2 hands, which means -4 give +8
-+ Maybe +2 by Reckels Attack

So we have a base dmg of 16 + 1d10....easy to get 20 pts of dmg

Hm. Let's take a closer look at this.

First off, according to the book (see pg. 12 of 2E), the 8-12th level range should be the highest level characters seen in most games. These aren't medium level characters. These are adventurers known far and wide, clan chieftains, famed champions (8th level). To quote the book, "An 8th level thief can kill even the strongest man with a single well-placed blow and has the skills to sneak through a whole temple full of worshippers without being detected."

Characters at 12+ level "are extremely rare". These are your kings, your national heroes, and the legendary figures whose deeds will be remembered for generations to come.

Many campaigns could be played entirely without ever seeing a 15th level character. The very highest character levels in the game (up to level 20) are reserved for demons, avatars, demigods, and the truly unique and gifted people like Arthur and Lancelot, Achilles, Conan, Thoth-Amon and Thulsa-Doom.

Using these guidelines, a character like Taurus, from The Tower of the Elephant, or Shevatas, from Black Colossus, (who both claimed to be the best thieves in all of Zamora), would be in the 8-10 level range.

Conan, as King of Aquilonia, or Thoth-Amon, at the height of his power, would be in the 15-20 level range.




Given this, when speaking of the 8-12 range, we're not talking about medium-experienced joe-blows. We're talking about experienced, seasoned veterans that have become heroes. Many characters spend their entire lives and never attain a level beyond 8th.





Now, consider the AC of two 8th level characters, and consider the armor or other protections that they may have. Taking a -5 penalty against that is a pretty steep penalty.

You could, indeed, have a character with a broadsword held with two hands, doing 1d10 + 16 damage, with the aid of Power Attack.

1. But....that attack has to hit. The -5 penalty is fair.

2. Even if the attack does hit, the victim still gets to roll the Save. And at these levels, with the various bonuses, the Save is, many times, not challenging.

3. Armor may reduce a lot of the damage, especially at this level, keeping the attack from reaching 20 hp.

4. And, if we're talking about Player Characters, there's the effect of Fate Points to consider.



All-in-all, if you consider all the parts and run your game as suggested by the book (especially during stat generation, using the default method of 4d6, drop lowest, and arrange to taste--this keeps the stat bonuses in check), the Massive Damage rule is quite fair.

 

[Supplement Four]

S4, I agree that probably the final 10 HPs are life-force but your first 90HPs are luck, skill, etc...

Hm. Answer a question for me, then.

You're running a Cimmerian Barbarian with 90 hp. In the last game session, you battled a Vanir raider and won. But, you lost 42 hp in the fight.

Let's say you are 10th level--a single classed Barbarian--with a CON 17.

It will take you about two and a half days to recover your hit points, using the natural healing rules.

Here's my question: What are you doing during that time? Are you allowing your wounds to heal, or are you waiting for your luck to return?





In other words: If it takes you two and a half days to heal, isn't it more believeable that you took a cut, suffered a bruise, twisted an ankle, or experienced some other minor wound that takes a couple of days to heal on its own than to say the character is waiting for his luck/skill/endurance to return?

You see, loss of hit points does mean that the character takes a wound. As long as the character still has at least 1 hp, these wounds are very minor. Wounds that take the character into the negatives are the more serious wounds because those wounds incapaciate the character and keep him out of action for a relatively long period as his wounds heal.

 

[Spectator]

S4, I agree that probably the final 10 HPs are life-force but your first 90HPs are luck, skill, etc...

Hm. Answer a question for me, then.

You're running a Cimmerian Barbarian with 90 hp. In the last game session, you battled a Vanir raider and won. But, you lost 42 hp in the fight.

Let's say you are 10th level--a single classed Barbarian--with a CON 17.

It will take you about two and a half days to recover your hit points, using the natural healing rules.

Here's my question: What are you doing during that time? Are you allowing your wounds to heal, or are you waiting for your luck to return?




In other words: If it takes you two and a half days to heal, isn't it more believeable that you took a cut, suffered a bruise, twisted an ankle, or experienced some other minor wound that takes a couple of days to heal on its own than to say the character is waiting for his luck/skill/endurance to return?

You see, loss of hit points does mean that the character takes a wound. As long as the character still has at least 1 hp, these wounds are very minor. Wounds that take the character into the negatives are the more serious wounds because those wounds incapaciate the character and keep him out of action for a relatively long period as his wounds heal.

That is the problem, you and I both know that the 42 hps included some cosmetic damage, a nick from a sword on Conan's forearm, a bloodied lip, etc...

Back in the old ADnD days, Conan would have taken 42 days to heal his 42 points, With Conan you get a 95% discount of time to heal (about 2.5 days). There have been threads here in the past which deal with this subject, as recently as a year ago, I think.

HPs do represent luck, skill, and fate (yikes I said it), before FPs were invented by Warhammer Fantasy RPG in the late 1980s (at least that was when I first heard about Fate points in the RPG world).
There is a certain area where the luck is about run out and the last 10 points (IMHO) are pure physical damage. Other people decide where it crosses the line from luck to health at different thresholds. I like to think that if I have a 1st level Barbarian w/ 10 HPs and I advance to 9th with 90HPs, then as long as I can exit a fight with at least 10hps I can say: "Wow, Conan, you incredibly beat all the odds but you feel as if you ran through the last 8 of your 9 lives!" I think that chilling out a bit before you wade into the next gorefest might be appropriate since the gods only shower so much favor.

I do like the concept of increased healing at shrines, after all if HPs are luck then that can be conceivably tied in with honoring the gods with sacrifices, prayer, etc...

I like the concept of loosing a buttload of HPs to be consistent with some type increased demand for sleep, due to delayed onset of exhaustion.

I am comfortable with the 2.5 days spent resting, praying, stretching, mending armor, sharpening swords, re-fletching arrows, etc...

All in all, its each to his own, duh. I just don't like the concept of proportionality: namely that a 10 HP, 1st level character suffers a 1 hp wound being equivalent to a 100 HP, 10th level character suffering a 10 HP wound.

 

[Supplement Four]

All in all, its each to his own, duh. I just don't like the concept of proportionality: namely that a 10 HP, 1st level character suffers a 1 hp wound being equivalent to a 100 HP, 10th level character suffering a 10 HP wound.

That's why I said above, in different words, that HP are flexible. Think of them as more of a measuring device instead of a relation where 1 HP damage equates to a certain type of would. It's kind of like comparing solid numbers and percentages. The solid, whole number 10 means just that: 10 units of something. 10% can mean a whole host of things, and you need other data points to qualify it.

That's the way hit points are. 10 HP damage to a novice character that incapciates the character and causes him to be near death represents a powerful, maybe mortal, blow. Then again, 10 HP done against our 90 HP Cimmerian, represents...well really nothing that a good night's sleep won't cure.

To define what a hit point represents, you have to look at the effect its loss had on the character.

If your 90 HP character fights six combat rounds with average damage around 15 points per damage, and he has 2 HP left, the next blow that does 3 HP of damage is actually the strongest blow the character takes--even though the other blows averaged 15 points each. The blow that does one fifth the HP damage of the others is the most powerful blow because, looking at the result, that's the blow that sent the character to his knees.

Plus, combat rounds are abstract. 15 points of damage received in one combat round could be the result of one blow. Or, it could be the result of 15 separate cuts and bruises. Or, it could be some combination there of. An arming sword might deliver one or two blows, or it could be six blows--or whatever. It's an abstact system (Unless you're talking about distance weapons--some of the abstactness dissapates).

 

[Ichabod]

Getting back to the original idea. Seems reasonable. I would note that there are weapons intended to be balanced by having a greater critical range. Without adjusting for weapons like scimitar, I could see the battleaxes of the world being a lot more interesting in comparison. May not be important as I see very few different weapons being desirable. You have greatsword or bardiche followed by any two-handed weapon for the STR fighters and whatever ekes out a few more points for the Sneak Attackers.

As for forcing MDSs, if you start with the one of the two elite weapons in the game - greatsword or bardiche - and follow up with a reasonable STR score for a PC fighter (16), you are at 1d8+1d10+5, for a range of 7-23 and an average of 15. At BAB 3, Power Attack can add +6 damage to put the average over 20. With 3 pts. or less of armor, the average damage is 20+.

Then, seems to be forgetting the other effective way to one-shot things in the game - Sneak Attack. Fourth level thief with a shortsword and zero STR bonus is doing 1d8 (weapon) + 2d8 (SA) + 1d8 (Light-Footed) for a range of 4-32 and an average of 18. Either add in a STR bonus or go to fifth level for another d8 of SA to average over 20.

While the thief is awesome for the one-shot kill, often having a simpler time generating absurd amounts of damage and not being as weapon dependent, the fighter is going to do better at most levels. One could say that the thief doesn't need to spend any feat slots to force MDSs, but Improved Feint is key for ensuring that SA damage can be done consistently as flanking requires having a buddy, thus why fencing schools are amazing for thieves. The advantages STR-dude have are also having Cleave, which can be the more important partner of the Power Attack/Cleave combo, that some things can't be Sneak Attacked, that classes with better BAB progressions get more attacks. Then, defensively, thieves are squishy in terms of worse Fortitude saves, unimpressive DV progressions, lack of special defenses, lack of armor if you are using Light-Footed, etc.

Ultimately, because one-shotting is so much more effective than grinding, the player is going to do whatever is necessary to get to the MDS level. May sound good to take MDSs away to avoid this obsession on 20+ damage. I'm pretty sure it's a mixed bag to do so. There's still a focus on generating maximum damage output, so it's not like you terribly incentivize moving away from the bardiche vs. Sneak Attack, two-track model of effective combat. Does slow down combat, which is often to the detriment of PCs as it's the PCs who are using the rules more effectively. And, any incentive to shift to a less damaging combat style, like the ridiculous parry dude, only slows down combat more. Depends, I suppose, on how much you want to see one-shots. While I don't like some features of the current model, it does seem to work better than other combat systems.

 

[LucaCherstich]

For S4:
I know 8-12 should be high-level...in theory.
There are no NPC warrior classes in Conan and if you see the gazeteers in all sourcebooks (Stygia, Aquilonia, etc..) it looks like common soldiers are in the range of 1-6th level.
Conan & Toth Amon are in the range of 19-20 lev.
8-12 lev to me is medium!


Going back to my original subject:
I just wanted to add some variety to combat tactics.
I like MD of 20, it makes the game deadly.
I know also there are means to reduce that (Armour, Fate Points) but, even so, getting 20 MD with just one hit remains the primary objective for players.
But the ways to get there, to those bloody 20 pts, are always the same and they tend to involve brutish force (Power Attacks, 2-handed weapons, etc..) more than Finesse.

The only other mean of doing 20 pts (as Ichabod remind us) is Sneak Attack...but I'm TIRED of fencers trying to get 1 thief level JUST FOR THE SAKE of getting Sneak Attack.

We need a tactic to allow pure, able fighters/not-thieves (for example expert sword fencers) to score a MD with one hit.

Producing Criticals is the solution.
Criticals are the best ways to get MD 20.
HOWEVER, Criticals based just on weapons are not enough, we need also critical based on the skill of a fighter.

Therefore, I keep normal weapon critical threat ranges ....but adding a second opportunity to get a critical threat ("Atk roll of 10 points more than the required defense") makes sense to me since it favours more sophisticated, less brutish tactics (e.g. Finesse, weapon focus, etc..) made by proper expert non-thief fighters.

Furthermore, in this way, everybody (not just those with Sneak Attack) can stab with a knife somebody who is flat-footed and hope to kill him (since there's a good opporunity to threat a Critical).

Considering all of this, and in case you like my House Rule, my question is:
Do you think that "10 pts more than Defence" is enough or critical threats are too easy?
Or should I raise it to 15 or 20 pts beyond the Defense?

 

[Supplement Four]

For S4:
There are no NPC warrior classes in Conan and if you see the gazeteers in all sourcebooks (Stygia, Aquilonia, etc..) it looks like common soldiers are in the range of 1-6th level.

Well, that works out about right. Think of level 1 as requiring one year of experience (for that career) before level 2 is reached. Two years at level 2, on average, until level 3 is reached. And so on.

Since Conan uses a stagnant system (as opposed to D&D dynamic system, were there can possibly be levels at 20+), only the novice--usually the young--will be Level 1.

Therefore a common soldier at...

...level 1 is probably 15-16 years old.

...level 2 is probably 16-18 years old.

...level 3 is probably 18-21 years old.

...and so on.

If you continue this...

Level 4 = 21-25 years.

Level 5 = 25-30 years.

Level 6 = 30-36 years.

Your typical soldier should be in the 1-6 range. That's 15-36 years old.

People start to get old and retire from the more challenging lifestyles around 40-60, if they live that long. Following the pattern above...

Level 7 = 36-43 years old.

Level 8 = 43 - 51 years old.

Level 9 = 51 - 60 years old.

...This falls in nicely with the description of what a level indicates on page 12 of 2E. Though the Conan rules don't seem to have any penalties for old age (and they probaby should have some physical penalties), another reason most people never see or reach 12 level is that they die first.

 

[Spectator]

LUCA wrote:
Therefore, I keep normal weapon critical threat ranges ....but adding a second opportunity to get a critical threat ("Atk roll of 10 points more than the required defense") makes sense to me since it favours more sophisticated, less brutish tactics (e.g. Finesse, weapon focus, etc..) made by proper expert non-thief fighters.

Furthermore, in this way, everybody (not just those with Sneak Attack) can stab with a knife somebody who is flat-footed and hope to kill him (since there's a good opporunity to threat a Critical).

Considering all of this, and in case you like my House Rule, my question is:
Do you think that "10 pts more than Defence" is enough or critical threats are too easy?
Or should I raise it to 15 or 20 pts beyond the Defense?

I do like the idea a lot. I think Crits should also be able to stack multiple times on a single hit.
I still like the David v. Goliath scenario where a TERRIFIC Shot can bring death.
by having the character just being lucky by rolling 19-20s as long as he can.

 

[LucaCherstich]

I do like the idea a lot. I think Crits should also be able to stack multiple times on a single hit.
I still like the David v. Goliath scenario where a TERRIFIC Shot can bring death.
by having the character just being lucky by rolling 19-20s as long as he can.

That's a great idea!
I did not consider that!

Let's call my new Critical Threat (10 pts higher than Defence) a "Mastery Critical Threat" (since the higher your BAB, the more you get criticals)
Let's call the normal Critical Threat a "Weapon Critical Threat" (based it is based on Weapon type: 20, 19-20, 18-20, etc.)

So one can get with the same hit:
- One Mastery Critical Threat.
- One Weapon Critical Threat.
If one confirms both...this mean that combat becomes dangerous even for high level PCs!

So, given also this issue, do you think "10 pts beyond Defence" is good?
Or should we say 20 pts beyond Defence? (In which case making Criticals will be less likely....and most probably it will happen together with normal Critical threats).

ADDENDUM on Mastery Critical Threats:
I had some thinking on Game Balance.
Weapon stats in Conan d20 are balanced according to Crit Threat Range and Crit multiplier.
Adding the Mastery critical simply breaks this balance.
Therefore, I thought about these rules:

RULE 1: A Confirmed Mastery Critical hit is treated as a normal critical with a x2 multiplier (whatever is the original crit multiplier of the Weapon critical: x3 or x4 are still considered x2 with Mastery Criticals).

RULE 2: If a single hit threats and then confirms both a Mastery critical and a Weapon critical, the two are added up.
However the multiplier are added up according to an old d20 practice as seen here: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Basics
FOR EXAMPLE: Weapon Crit x3 + Mastery Crit x2= x4, NOT x5

RULE 3 OPTIONAL:
This is optional and it applies only if you use my optional Alternative Criticals.
It is discussed here:
http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=49223

 

[Spectator]

I do like the idea a lot. I think Crits should also be able to stack multiple times on a single hit.
I still like the David v. Goliath scenario where a TERRIFIC Shot can bring death.
by having the character just being lucky by rolling 19-20s as long as he can.

That's a great idea!
I did not consider that!

Let's call my new Critical Threat (10 pts higher than Defence) a "Mastery Critical Threat" (since the higher your BAB, the more you get criticals)
Let's call the normal Critical Threat a "Weapon Critical Threat" (based it is based on Weapon type: 20, 19-20, 18-20, etc.)

So one can get with the same hit:
- One Mastery Critical Threat.
- One Weapon Critical Threat.
If one confirms both...this mean that combat becomes dangerous even for high level PCs!

So, given also this issue, do you think "10 pts beyond Defence" is good?
Or should we say 20 pts beyond Defence? (In which case making Criticals will be less likely....and most probably it will happen together with normal Critical threats).

ADDENDUM on Mastery Critical Threats:
I had some thinking on Game Balance.
Weapon stats in Conan d20 are balanced according to Crit Threat Range and Crit multiplier.
Adding the Mastery critical simply breaks this balance.
Therefore, I thought about these rules:

RULE 1: A Confirmed Mastery Critical hit is treated as a normal critical with a x2 multiplier (whatever is the original crit multiplier of the Weapon critical: x3 or x4 are still considered x2 with Mastery Criticals).

RULE 2: If a single hit threats and then confirms both a Mastery critical and a Weapon critical, the two are added up.
However the multiplier are added up according to an old d20 practice as seen here: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Basics
FOR EXAMPLE: Weapon Crit x3 + Mastery Crit x2= x4, NOT x5

RULE 3 OPTIONAL:
This is optional and it applies only if you use my optional Alternative Criticals.
It is discussed here:
http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=49223

Here is our WarHammer Fantasy RPG did it:
Player rolled max damage on his weapon (in WFRPG weapons did d6 damage) so if he rolled a 6, then the PC would re-roll his attack score (WFRPG used a d100 variable attack; eg average human had a 32 score.) if he rolled his score or under then he got to roll an additional d6 worth of damage, if he got a 6 again, then he did not roll his attack score, but kept rolling d6 and would only stop when he rolled a 1-5. In theory, you could roll 6s forever (statistically unlikely, though). This would allow the simple peasant to be able to slay a giant with his sling-stone. Very difficult and almost unlikely, but still possible.


In d20 world:
You attack (assume you don't hit your crit numbers of 19-20) but you DO HIT with your broadsword, you rack up 10 on your damage roll. Following the warhammer model, you roll your attack roll again, if you make another hit, you roll another d10, ad infinitum.

Assuming you do hit your crit number of 19-20, you roll a 10, you get your double damage, and lets say you roll another 20, and get 10, you double your damage, so you roll damage again and get a 5, well you hit and caused 45 points of damage prior to any modifications. Thus allowing the peasant boy wielding the rusty broadsword to slay the evil bandit lord in one stroke.

It brings the realm of possibility in alignment with great occurrences of luck.

 

[LucaCherstich]

You are talking about "exploding dices", a technique which I like a lot and I've seen it in use in a series of RPGs as different as L5R and CBP2020.
HOWEVER, I do not want want to use it here.
It adds a second chance on making high damage just on the base of pure luck (rolling max damage).
I'm looking for a way to see more skillful characters make more damage because of their superior skill, not because of chance.
I still prefer my "Mastery Critical Threat".
I'm still in doubt wether 10 pts beyond defence is too small a number or not.

 

[Spectator]

You are talking about "exploding dices", a technique which I like a lot and I've seen it in use in a series of RPGs as different as L5R and CBP2020.
HOWEVER, I do not want want to use it here.
It adds a second chance on making high damage just on the base of pure luck (rolling max damage).
I'm looking for a way to see more skillful characters make more damage because of their superior skill, not because of chance.
I still prefer my "Mastery Critical Threat".
I'm still in doubt wether 10 pts beyond defence is too small a number or not.

More Skilled characters do cause greater damage: through their # of attacks / round.
"Exploding Dice" (I like the name) allows the unskilled to have the luck of the Gods very rarely. Skilled folks get more chances to cause damage and get the luck of the Gods as well.
I suppose you could limit "exploding dice/ ungodly luck to a MAX of once a day, as well.