Computer/Cyber/Bio Technology in the new Traveller setting?

[AikiGhost]

Im just wondering if anyone can fill me in on the details of how the new books will be covering tech?

Will the computers still be 10 ton monstrosities that require a degree to program?

Will Cyber and bio tech still be essentailly unavialable to PCs?

Does the game still have the 70s sci fi vibe as regards technology or has it been "Modernized".

 

[tjoneslo]

I'll post my technology in Traveller rant.

The largest assumption in all versions of Traveller is that Technology has not significantly changed humanity. Any technological changes that would make you ask "is he still human?" have been ignored or not implemented.

The second largest assumption about technology it that it is old. All of the scifi stories you read (or see) about the shiny new thing: In Traveller that shiny new thing was discovered a thousand years ago (or more). It's been the new thing, the retro-thing, the retro-retro-thing, numbered, filed, forgotten, rediscovered, adapted to purposes it was not intended, was the new-retro thing, had the book, movie, and tri-D made then remade, mocked, become overdone, and is now part of the background like a white wall.

So as much as I'd like to see the new, updated technology in this Traveller rule set (and if you're making a generic SF RPG it's hard not to), I'd also like to see that these assumptions about the technology acknowledged.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Even if it's a set of optional rules, it'd be interesting to allow characters to tech like the data nets and headware computers of Peter Hamilton's Commonwealth saga and Night's Dawn trilogy.

 

[SableWyvern]

Whereas the original Traveller tech was "The 70s, But Better!", I'd like to see something similar, but built to today's standards. Smaller computers and radios, a HUD that doesn't require TL14 etc... A bit of cybernetics wouldn't go astray. But, ultimately, I'd like to be able to play 2010 In Space.

The presence of subdermal armour and combat implants in the playtest documents seems to indicate the incorporation of some cybernetics, at least.

 

[Allensh]

I believe it is quite likely that individual worlds have datanets, even Holonets where the tech level is high enough. It is quite probable that those citizens whose careers require such things have datajacks, implanted memory storage, possibly even implanted computers.

An Imperium-wide data network simply will not work because of interstellar distances and the fact that Traveller has no FTL communications technology. Change that, and you fundamentally alter Traveller into being something it is not. Obviously, data can be delivered between one network and another using data packets transported aboard ships.

As for nanotech, while Vilani conservatism and the Imperial Rules of War have probably largely prevented nano-weapons, I would not be at all surprised if nanotech and biotech were the science behind anagathics, for example. I'm sure it exists...its just by the 57th century, it has become as accepted as microelectronics and transisters are in our time, and people are more concerned about what it does than what it is.

Allen

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Even if it's a set of optional rules, it'd be interesting to allow characters to tech like the data nets

Traveller has computer terminals available at starport lounges, bars, hotels, libraries, etc. However these are very localised (normally planet-wide datanets). There's no such thing in Traveller as an Imperium-wide net anyone can access anywhere.

and headware computers

HUD is available to CT Zhodani characters as part of battle dress - I don't recall if Imperial suits have it as well (nor any other races). Hand-held comps are available, as are a range of other hand-held devices - neural activity sensors and other gubbins.

 

[lastbesthope]

This discussion is reminding me of the book "To Hold Infinity", where there was the Skein, a sort of datanet only accessible by a privileged few.

LBH

 

[pasuuli]

Im just wondering if anyone can fill me in on the details of how the new books will be covering tech?

Will the computers still be 10 ton monstrosities that require a degree to program?

Will Cyber and bio tech still be essentailly unavialable to PCs?

Does the game still have the 70s sci fi vibe as regards technology or has it been "Modernized".

I think the game just about has to be modernized. Expect computers to be smaller, and I think there's room to blur the lines between man and machine.

 

[Golan2072]

A good way to make the anti-cyber/AI/biotech attitudes of a typical Traveller culture more believable is to add some kind of an AI/cyber/bio disaster in the setting's history which would cause a massive public phobia of these subjects. Ofcourse, in the pre-TNE OTU it is somewhat difficult to insert such an event, but in an ATU it would work quite well.

This, of course, doesn't preclude experimentation in secret and a few "safe" uses, but blatant cyber/biotech/AIs would invoke a very negative public reaction (for a real-world equivalent, think of the attitude towards eugenics - and, for many people, human genetic research in general - after the horrors of WWII).

 

[weasel_fierce]

the computer size doesnt really bother me much. I always figured that the weight is the entirety of the control and computer systems throughout the ship, rather than a single terminal

 

[captainjack23]

HEy all.

I'm reposting part of my response on this matter from the playtest thread:
*******************************************
Unfortunately, two issues: cyberpunk and transhumanism already have their games, so a half way attempt to accommodate them will be , well, half a**ed. Second, all that gains us is todays version of tomorrow - which is, after all, what traveller was then.

If all we are trying to do is model the future, we may as well be an academic discipline, and who wants that ? What we seem to have with traveller is a flavor, and one that says: progress has fits and starts, and while things change, humans stay the same

....that and the Imperium shows OBVIOUS signs of psychohistorical meddling, but I digress
****************************************

Hope that says it well enough. The trick to NOT having the setting be just todays tomorrow would be, as suggested above, that they aren't specifically modelled because 1. what does exist is thoughroughy integrated and taken for granted, and what doesnt exist specifically ruled out by the society in question.

-cap

 

[captainjack23]

I think the game just about has to be modernized. Expect computers to be smaller, and I think there's room to blur the lines between man and machine.

The computer issue is misunderstood. Tons in traveller = displacement, which = volume, NEVER actual dry weight. (Note that even in 1978 computers were getting MUCH smaller each year, they knew this); and it explicitly includes all the support "stuff" (including an operator) needed to make it go; in CT this would also include it's power supply, sensors, etc.

IRL my computer workspace takes up at a guess pretty close to a displacement ton : 13.5 cubic meters. (we have a high ceiling, granted), includes workspace, books, screen(s) me, some room to move. Plus about four seperate cpus (main xp machine , secondary unix box) & two laptops. There also is a server across town with a big raid array and its own share of cooling, spares and cables I use for most of my heavy numeric work - probably another couple of 1.5m cubes worth. Of which I can use one at a time. I'd say that approximates a type 1 computer for CT - Maybe 1bis. 1.5 dtons is actually more than a traveller estimate.

My motto on modeling nonexistent technologies: generalize, don't ennumerate.

As to blurring the lines between computer and man, I'm not too motivated by the opprtunity to play as a unix proccess....too easy to kill.... :wink:

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Even if it's a set of optional rules, it'd be interesting to allow characters to tech like the data nets

Traveller has computer terminals available at starport lounges, bars, hotels, libraries, etc. However these are very localised (normally planet-wide datanets). There's no such thing in Traveller as an Imperium-wide net anyone can access anywhere.

and headware computers

HUD is available to CT Zhodani characters as part of battle dress - I don't recall if Imperial suits have it as well (nor any other races). Hand-held comps are available, as are a range of other hand-held devices - neural activity sensors and other gubbins.

To clarify, the data nets are more like distributed planetary networks - think the internet but even more ubiquitous - there's no FTL communicaitons in the Night's Dawn trilogy, and it's only the use of wormholes that allows it in the Commonwealth saga. And the headware computers are actual implant tech - characters in both trilogies have full communication suites (for video, email and radio/TV), the characters can load skillware into their computers to allow them access to abilities they haven't learned (though it's acknowledged that a learned skill is superior)

 

[pasuuli]

A good way to make the anti-cyber/AI/biotech attitudes of a typical Traveller culture more believable is to add some kind of an AI/cyber/bio disaster in the setting's history which would cause a massive public phobia of these subjects. Ofcourse, in the pre-TNE OTU it is somewhat difficult to insert such an event...

I think there's plenty of room for something like that.

1070: Emperor Paulo III rules that transfer of consciousness to a clone is criminal, since this is "tampering with the mind of a sentient lifeform, similar in concept to psionics." Travellers' Digest #12, DGP, 1988, p. 37

That's 200 years after the psionic suppressions. Why so late?

I'm not saying it's a given, but rather that it's plausible.

IRL my computer workspace takes up at a guess pretty close to a displacement ton : 13.5 cubic meters. (we have a high ceiling, granted), includes workspace, books, screen(s) me, some room to move.

This is justification for a starship bridge with crew stations, computers, and whatnot.

 

[pasuuli]

Here's my take. I think Traveller could benefit from a more integrated version of its venerable Robots book.

I'm looking forward to robots being treated like aliens and humans. With rules that let their bodies be defined in terms of characteristics, then you've automatically got cybernetics as well.

Moreover, if those bodies can be products of organic engineering, then you've also got clones, uplift, eugenics (shudder), organ and limb replacements, and other products (good and evil) from geneering.

Finally, the "computer" just becomes a network of robot brains, and your starship can potentially have a mind of its own, thus providing us with a mechanic explaining the Kinunir.

So then, you have cyber- and bio-tech with a decidedly Traveller spin. Model the effects, rather than the details.


But Wait, There's More

Here's another reason to have these rules: if you want Traveller to still have elements of being a generic sci-fi game, then you have to address these sci-fi elements.

 

[Dyrewulf]

Although I do agree that a technology facelift is needed to give the game a more modern feel...modern for a game that is far in the future...
There are ways to still keep the tech levels down without going all cyborg crazy...
I was introduced to traveller about 20 years ago, my Ref had been running traveller from the time he got his hands on it's first printing back in 1977.
He loved the feel of the clunky old scout ship or fartrader, steam being expelled from leaky pipes, the whole nine yards. One of the things he incorporated into his campaigns which then spawned one of the other guys in the group to create a campaign setting in the 9th Millenium, was the first appearance of the machines (a robotic / cyborg race) akin to the borg in star trek that would decimate entire star systems.
It took a combine effort of most of the sentient races to beat them and with the exception of a few "scouts", no one heard from them again, but the fear was always there...the fear that someone could be corrupted into becoming a "machine" was always there, so this kept the cyborging out craze down to a minimum and made for interesting game play when a character lost a limb...
We had a bounty hunter in our group who had a plastic prosthetic left leg and left hand...pure entertainment
Anyways, yes I think the the feel needs an update as far as clunky old computers and plastic prosthetics, if a world wants to jump ahead and create watch sized supercomputers and allow full cybernetic or bio enhanced replacements...I say let them...you can always put the fear of the "Machines" in them...
Virgo (our ref) also ran a campaign where cybernetics on this one planet were the cause of a viral epidemic...the main reason why the bounty hunter got his plastic prosthetics...
So, there are lots of ways to keep things on a lower tech level...or at least explain why...
Anyways, I am so looking forward to this latest edition...
My traveller group is up and running and gearing up...in memory of Virgo who we lost a year and a half ago...I have found myself somehow having to step into his flip flops.

 

[wlewisiii]

I never had trouble with the CT computers. As mentioned, the volume requirements are easily explained with even the most generous of crystal lattice data storage fantasies... :wink: Programming merely takes The Mythical Man Month and runs with it :shock: As such, I was always able to wing cyberspace type things very easily. Cyborg tech just _is_ - it's so normal no one comments on it. Do you comment much on the fact that your milk is pasturized?

Nano becomes a special problem though. To me it has very serious problems for the feel of Traveller. My own answer was very simple once I read David Pulver's Centauri Knights.

While Starleaper One was getting ready to go off to Bernard's Star, there was the ESA mission to Alpha Centauri. There they find grey goo mess that Mr. Pulver describes (and have the various semi-transhuman escapades he also describes) freaking out the Terran leadership already overwhelmed by contact with the Vilani...

In the end, the hammer falls _very_ hard on the Centauri Trans-Humans/Hippies and using nano becomes the only death penalty crime in the Terrran Confederation. :shock: :evil: 8) By the time of the 3I, the legal restrictions have become much less but the cultural/moral/religious restrictions are still very much in place.

All alternate technology paths need only be as much of a hindrance as you let them be. The discussion of "Safe Tech" in GURPS Traveller is especially valuable here. We are presented with a postulated future. Presuming that the singularity will remain a fictional construct, we then have to find a good story to get us from point A to point B. I've shown one alternative. The rest, I suggest, really - always - needs to be left as an exercise for the GM. A rather small side bar pointing this out is all that should be in any of the books that are Traveller identified.

Hoping this helps,

William

 

[hdrider67]

You could also go the Honor Harrington route where ctbernetics are mostly a last-ditch reply to injury. Medicine is so advanced that you have a pretty damn chance of being normal again after injuries, if there's anything left to save.

Cy work is used only when the damade is so extensive to a particular function that even advanced medical work can't help.

 

[Deniable]

The computer size debate comes up a lot. The 'large' computers are the starship computers. Personal computing has usually been hand held. The ship computers are this size because they include (depending on rule version) control systems, sensors, racks, cooling, UPS, anti-virus [1], nuclear power plant control, all of the inputs, outputs, storage, backup, radiation hardening, redundancy, backward compatability and so forth. Once you've got all of that in a box, they are surprisingly *small.*

As for cyber and nano, who's to say that the money to fix wounds in the current playtest isn't for use of one or both. You go to the doctor, he gives you a magic bandage, pill or whatever and you get better. But, because this is Traveller, you're still human, even if you're not. [2]

[1] TNE gives this a whole new level of fun. Bot nets that kill rather than spam.
[2] People are still people, even the Vargr, Droyne, Hivers, maybe not the Hivers. Bizarre B5/Trav cross-over: Vorlons debating Hivers.

 

[SableWyvern]

Check the new playtest doc to see where they're going with technology. They've certainly taken some bold steps, and they're going to catch some serious flak from some quarters -- despite the fact that I think these elements will be easy enough to ignore for anyone who doesn't like them.