Combat Issues

[PhilHibbs]

Unless you are facing multiple opponents, with this you might be able to kill or disable an opponent before his ally has a go at you.

Unless the other opponent has a CA, then he simply defends as normal. And if he doesn't have another CA, then it's redundant calling the move a Riposte, as it's identical to a normal attack v defence situaton.

Unless I'm missing something, this is a pointless manouevre

Not in the case of multiple opponents.

Situation 1:
A misses C. C parries, chooses something other than Riposte.
B attacks C. C fails to parry and gets wounded.
C can't attack because his weapon arm is incapacitated.

Situation 2:
A misses C. C parries, ripostes, and kills A.
B attacks C. C fails to parry and gets wounded.
Or, B sees his friend die and runs for it!

I know which I prefer, if I'm playing C! Of course, A gets a defensive action against C's riposte, so the riposte isn't a guaranteed kill, but jumping the queue can be worth trying.

Of course you could argue that C can usually choose a more effective manoeuvre than Riposte, such as Change Range, Disarm, etc., but if you need to take someone out, then this is one way. If A has Heroic Presence, you've taken away a bonus from B as well, for example.

 

[Grimolde]

riposte is pointless about 90% of the time. It works when for example you and your opponent both have 2 CAs left. As the next action would normally be your opponent attacking you then you can claim the next attack.

Normal events A & B have 3 CAs each:
A attacks, B parries
B attacks, A parries
A attacks, B parries

A attacks, B parries (gains riposte)
B ripostes, A parries
B attacks, A parries

Generally though riposte is fairly weak because there's usually a better option. Riposte is more powerful if you play with the house rule that once a parry is declared you have to perform it even if the attack misses.

When you put it like that, Riposte seems very effective to me.

Thanks for the tutorial

 

[Deleriad]

Overextend opponent – Opponent cannot attack on his next Strike Rank.

That it? No opposed test? Opponent cannot attack at all throughout his entire next Strike Rank?

That's correct. Generally the opponent is likely to 'pre-declare' a parry as their action so they don't lose their CA for no effect. It works a bit like a slow-motion riposte.

It looks to me as though you may be coming at this with a d20 style mindset where every combat option is balanced against every other one. If so, you need to realise is not a fair and balanced system. It's probably best to say that some actions are more generally useful than others. Some are better in specific circumstances. That said, despite what some players think, an aimed shot to the head is not always the best option.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Generally though riposte is fairly weak because there's usually a better option. Riposte is more powerful if you play with the house rule that once a parry is declared you have to perform it even if the attack misses.

Indeed, in my example it might have been more prudent for C to skip the parry against A and use it against B instead. If C is fully spammed up with Enhance DEX and Enhance INT and has 6 CAs then he can afford it though!

 

[sdavies2720]

... That said, despite what some players think, an aimed shot to the head is not always the best option.

Our recent Clockwork & Chivalry game started with a bar fight (of course), but one character had a 'walking' staff, which he used and got a CM. He was looking at choose location 'head', but I reminded him that they were in Cambridge fighting against unarmed and unarmored men. After a second's hesitation, he stayed with 'choose location' but chose left leg. So he stamped down with the staff and broke the man's foot. Their opponents limped away after that.

Steve

 

[Grimolde]

So basically, with riposte, it's about riposting, and having a second immediate attack on your opponent, effectively attacking twice in a row?

 

[Da Boss]

So basically, with riposte, it's about riposting, and having a second immediate attack on your opponent, effectively attacking twice in a row?

Only if you have enough Combat Actions - would need 3 minimum (Parry, Riposte, Attack)

 

[ThatGuy]

I wil point out here that the two most effective CMs in my experience so far are "disarm" and "trip". They are just fight enders. No damage (at least it's not a pre-requisite). But an opponent on the ground with no weapon is usually going to yeild.

I love that the most deadly maneuvers...aren't deadly.

EDIT: This is, of course, in a dueling situation. More enemies require different tactics. But more enemies is also a huge problem for anybody in MRQ2, so tactics or no, it's gonna be a challenge.

 

[Grimolde]

This game is awesome

All that's left to do is actually play the thing

 

[languagegeek]

I wil point out here that the two most effective CMs in my experience so far are "disarm" and "trip".

If it's a one-on-one combat situation, isn't Trip just "lose a CA"?

A has 3CA, B has 3CA

First SR
A: attack-success
B: parry-fail
A: CM: trip. B falls prone

Second SR
B: stand up

Next cycle, First SR
A: attack-success
B: parry-success

Next cycle, First SR
A: attack-success
B: no more CAs.

Also, Doesn't Disarm cause damage? Couldn't trip with a club damage legs? On pg 99 of the corebook (emphasis mine)

The trollkin
selects Disarm Opponent as his offensive manoeuvre and Edric makes an Opposed Test of his weapon skill against
the trollkin’s original attack of 09. He rolls 98% and is shocked when his shield is ripped out of his grasp, incidentally
taking 2 HP damage to his shield arm from the trollkin’s claws!

 

[Loz]

If it's a one-on-one combat situation, isn't Trip just "lose a CA"?

No, not really. The tripped opponent can attack and defend from a prone position but at a 20% penalty. He can choose to spend a CA getting up, but that leaves him vulnerable to an attack. He hasn't however, lost the CA: its more a question of how he spends it. He could, for example, choose to defend from a prone position and if he beats his opponent with his defence use the Regain Footing CM to get back to his feet without having to spend a CA to do so.

Also, Doesn't Disarm cause damage?

If you succeed in your attack and the opponent fails to defend he sustains damage in addition to the CM. So the damage in the example is actually a result of the weapon strike rather than the application of the Disarm CM.

 

[Ein]

Also, Doesn't Disarm cause damage? Couldn't trip with a club damage legs?

Both do normal damage, as long as you don't pull the blow (pg. 91). The inflicted damage isn't negated by these CMs. At least I understood the rules that way.

Well, now the question is whether a sufficient high damage translates into disarming by chopping of the arm.

 

[Loz]

Well, now the question is whether a sufficient high damage translates into disarming by chopping of the arm.

There's no question that it does. To quote from the Damage section of the Combat chapter (emphasis mine).

A character suffering a Serious Wound to a limb must immediately make an Opposed Test of his Resilience versus the successful attack roll of his enemy. Failure results in the limb being rendered useless, until the location is restored to positive hit points. If a leg, the victim drops prone. If an arm, he drops whatever he is holding unless the object is strapped on (use common sense here).

 

[Deleriad]

My personal understanding is that when it comes to CMs like trip or disarm it is actually up to you whether you do them instead of damage or as well as damage.

Again personally, if someone has been tripped and is prone and doesn't want the opponent to stand up I rule that the prone person basically has to succeed at a change range CA to stand up. Which is to say that the character with the advantage keeps battering at the prone guy to try and stop him from getting to his feet. Obviously if the prone guy has more CAs than the opponent then he'll eventually be able to stand up freely.

I rule the same for retrieving a dropped/disarmed weapon. If someone wants to pick a weapon up which is some distance away they can't just saunter over and pick it up. I also generally rule that it takes 1 CA to get into position and 1 CA to retrieve it.

 

[languagegeek]

Again personally, if someone has been tripped and is prone and doesn't want the opponent to stand up I rule that the prone person basically has to succeed at a change range CA to stand up. Which is to say that the character with the advantage keeps battering at the prone guy to try and stop him from getting to his feet. Obviously if the prone guy has more CAs than the opponent then he'll eventually be able to stand up freely.

That makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[ThatGuy]

The awesome thing about disarm and trip, is that if someone parries successfully and you crit against them- even if they are using a hoplite- you can utilize either maneuver.

Also, outside of the rules, consider the situation: you have your sword knocked out of your hand, then you are knocked on your duff. If there is anyone watching- then you lost that fight. Even if it's two people alone in an alley, a shout of "Yeild!" at a guy on his backside with no weapon has a high chance of yielding favorable results.

Stun location is one of the most devestating CMs (if not the most of the regular CMs), but it requires the attacker to make contact and deliver damage. The thing about trip and disarm, is that there is no such prerequisite. You can trip and disarm a warrior in full plate- while you unarmored, holding a stick- that has almost no chance at penetrating his armor. To me, that's awesome.

 

[Ein]

When disarming should the damage be redirected to the holding arm or should the loc still be determined randomly?

 

[ThatGuy]

I don't think so. Consider the damaging attack a "distraction" (albeit one that can remove a limb), allowing the disarm attempt to follow.

I think of it as a soldiers "combination", like a boxer. Jab, jab, hook. Slice at the leg, hammer the weapon hand with shield.

 

[Grimolde]

I can imagine keeping track of npc Combat Actions being a nightmare.

Is it bothersome?

 

[DamonJynx]

Bash opponent The recipient is forced backwards by one metre for every five points (or fraction thereof ) of damage rolled.

How does this work on a battle grid with the usual 5' squares? If you do 5 damage the defender is knocked back 1 metre (3'), you have to do at least 10 damage to knock them back 2 metres (6'), which barely bumps them back a square.

Apart from knocking an opponent into an immovable object, and them falling prone, I can't see any use to 'Bash Opponent'.

Answer to the first bit, is it's up to you. RQ isn't designed for 5' squares. If I use grid based combat I use 2m squares because it allows for larger maps and rule that 1-2m of movement moves 1 square, 3-4m moves 2 squares and so on.

Best use of bash is usually on a cliff edge. Knocking someone prone is no bad thing however and depending on how agile your foe is you might find it easier to bash them back into a rock than try to trip them.

Depending on circumstances the GM might call for the bashed opponent to make a brawn roll or drop their weapon or might need a CA to recover their footing and be at -20% to their combat skills until their next SR etc. The rules only tell you what happened; what the impact is will depend on circumstances.

My group is currently playing 3 systems and we like using mini's in all of them. For RQ we have taken the simple approach of 1 sq = 1 metre, saves confusion and having to remember stuff.