Combat Armor

J

Jak Nazryth

Mongoose
Player... "Ok, I'm keeping on my combat armor, but not wearing the helmet."

GM... (thinking) hmmmmmm..... how does this affect his over all armor rating?

Anyone? Should we base it on the piecemeal rules in the CSC?
 
Depends on what's hitting him. Depends on if you allow players to narrate what happens to them after rolls. Depends on if you allow for body parts.

Simple way is to just total up all his armor ratings for soaking physical characteristic damage.
 
CSC allows for piecemeal armor, layered armor, etc... You can't target specific body parts per Mongoose game mechanics (GURPS Traveller is the only Traveller game that allows that) but CSC allows for a general increase in total armor value based on what you wear because some types of armor are torso only. The Armor value from Combat Armor includes all pieces as a single suite. Just curious what the helmet of a suit of Combat armor is worth? I don't think the total point value would drop more than 2, just curious if anyone else had used those rules before. My players are always throwing me curve balls. The dive in deep to the armor and weapon rules while I generally only pay attention to the overall "normal" rules, so sometimes they surprise me. But CSC does have armor value for a variety of lower tech helmets...
 
Jak Nazryth said:
CSC allows for piecemeal armor, layered armor, etc... You can't target specific body parts per Mongoose game mechanics (GURPS Traveller is the only Traveller game that allows that) but CSC allows for a general increase in total armor value based on what you wear because some types of armor are torso only. The Armor value from Combat Armor includes all pieces as a single suite. Just curious what the helmet of a suit of Combat armor is worth? I don't think the total point value would drop more than 2, just curious if anyone else had used those rules before. My players are always throwing me curve balls. The dive in deep to the armor and weapon rules while I generally only pay attention to the overall "normal" rules, so sometimes they surprise me. But CSC does have armor value for a variety of lower tech helmets...
Click to expand...
You're the referee. You can do whatever you want. Make up armor parts. Target specific body parts (1d6 for limb, torso, head, for example). Just error on the side of common sense. Games should never come to a grinding halt for such things.
 
lol... no I NEVER let my games come to a grinding halt, nor even a slight applying of the breaks for that matter based on rules. I always wing it as a GM and use common sense if there isn't any specific rule. Which is why I'm asking. Thanks for your input, but does anyone know the answer to my question? Is there somewhere in the rules that breaks out specific pieces of Combat Armor? If I don't know the answer by the game time tonight, I'll just wing it as usual.
 
I can think of two things...

A) the helmet isn't a separate piece, if the player wants it removed it simply folds away into the back piece of the armour (and naturally it snaps back when there's action)

B) if the player gets attacked, and the effect of the hit-roll is... I don't know, 2? 4? Let's just say 'high enough' then the player gets no benefit of armour due to headshot, otherwise the shot hits the armour and regular armour rules apply.
 
Yeah, one of my players used the Mongoose rules in the CSC to assemble a decent armor rating base on "protect vest", arm protection, helmet, etc... that he uses in most settings. But he recently bought a boarding Vacc Suite for a mission to the Kinunir.
Now the party is docked with a Lab ship, so he left his helmet on the ship (no real chance of combat)... This whole adventure has to do with the experimental AI. Another player had combat armor (as a mustering out benefit) but also left his helmet on the ship.
Since the first player has a variety of armor points based on what he's wearing, I got an email about an hour ago asking how much their armor was worth without the helmets. I told them I would try to find out before the game, so I posted my question here. I'm at work and don't have the ability to look up the specific rules.
Thanks for any help if anyone has the rules handy, or knows the answer.
 
Don't get me wrong... I appreciate all input. I'm just wondering if there's an actual rule in the Mongoose mechanics I can use. For Combat Armor IMTU it's similar to Storm Trooper armor (except it actually protects wearers from simple stone tools and arrows...stupid ewoks..) although the helmet is a separate piece, it might come with some kind of strap or clip to hang off a belt. Vacc Suites are similar. I know emergency vacc suites come with an inflatable head "sack", but armored vacc suits are different.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. If I have time I'll check out the CSC cause I'm only going to get home only a few minutes before my players start showing up.
 
I'm not aware of a rule per se that covers the drop in protection when not wearing the helmet. The only way I can see the rules covering it is if you work backwards, it will mean you'll have to arbitrarily assign a helmet value but it is doable.

I'm away from my books at the moment so I don't have the rules for layering armour, but that's what I'd suggest you do backwards if you want the rules to back you up in what's said to a player on how you got the number.

Personally I'd drop it by about 1/4 (without checking the rules)
 
I'd remind him that the British re-discovered the steel helmet in the Great War, once they realized that head wounds tend to be critical and have potentially long lasting debilitating effects.

Space Marines have plot armour, in lieu of helmet.
 
As soon as I can, I will find a helmet that is as close to the TL of combat armor and simply assign that. I think it will be around 2, possibly 3 points.

Yes, battle dress is plot armor... ;)
 
Han Solo and Luke Skywalker took of their helmets on the Deathstar and were repeatedly shot at. Didn't seem to effect how easy or difficult the chance to hit was. It the rules don't say there's a difference there's no difference. Taking off a helmet should be should be a useful, if necessary, story device.

"They're depressurizing this section! Quick, put your helmets back... you didn't really leave yours on the bridge!!"
 
Jak Nazryth said:
As soon as I can, I will find a helmet that is as close to the TL of combat armor and simply assign that. I think it will be around 2, possibly 3 points.

Yes, battle dress is plot armor... ;)
Click to expand...

Looking at CSC, the helmet would be closer to 4-5 or more for combat armor helmet. TL 7 ballistic helmet is 4, TL 9 light infantry helmet is 5, and the TL 12 ceramic alloy helmet is 4 (10 against laser and flame).

According to the combining armor rules though, only 1/4 of the head protection is added to the total armor value when a helmet is worn with another piece of armor. So the helmet would count as 1-2 points of protection in the whole suit of combat armor.

Han Solo and Luke Skywalker took of their helmets on the Deathstar and were repeatedly shot at. Didn't seem to effect how easy or difficult the chance to hit was. It the rules don't say there's a difference there's no difference. Taking off a helmet should be should be a useful, if necessary, story device.
Click to expand...

That is because armor doesn't affect the chance to be hit. It just reduces damage once you are hit.
 
Without the ability to make called/head shots you can't really do much to directly penalize the player (outside the normal "I'm the game master... bwhwhahahahahahahaa!").

However, there are a number of things you can potentially do. The helmet is usually going to be the primary way to access most of the suits sensors, functions and other built-in commands. Unless they have extra gear they would be without access to the commo gear as well. For area-type attacks they'll have no defense (i.e. a normal air-burst artillery shell would not affect them with the helmet on, but with it off they'd probably be killed in they are in it's AOE). Gas and other atmospheric issues affect them. Even something as simple as temperature or sun stroke could affect them without the helmet and the benefit of its' sealed environment.

So much depends on the situation. Taking your helmet off during a break is one thing. Having it off and being under attack is another. Most soldiers will happily wear their protective gear going into combat, but as soon as the bullets stop flying they want it off and want it off NOW. At least that was my experience.
 
Thank you Jerraa! :)
Yep, I was guessing around 2 points..., 3 being max... ;)

Phavoc... Yep. They have FOF, HUD, and some enhanced vision... plus comms.
None will be available while the helmet is off.
They are about to get into a fight... a big one...
Which takes into consideration the last 2 threads I started.
This single encounter has taken almost 3 years in the planning (real time)
Without getting into the specifics... they are about to be introduced to a new species I've created. The helmets might be missed... ;)
 
To try and clarify my earlier, poorly written post, now that I'm home and have the books I'll try again.

This is pigeon maths, I may be completely wrong mathematically speaking, if I am, be gentle with me...

OK, let’s start with TL14 combat armour, from the CSC it has an armour value of 16

if we assume that all parts of the body are equally armoured cos its TL14 combat armour and it makes the math easier we can go backwards from the combining armour rules on page 133 of the (pdf) CSC.

torso full value
head 1/4 value
arms 1/4 value
legs 1/4 value

Which gives us a ratio of 7/4 for the contributing pieces.

16/7=2.28

torso 9.14
head 2.28
arms 2.28
legs 2.28

Remove your helmet and you drop the armour by 2.28. I'd round that down to 13 but it could be 14.
 
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