Classic Traveller vs Mongoose Traveller

[spinwardpirate]

My tuppence.

I've been thinking about running a game of MGT since picking up the core book back when it first hit the shelves, but one game led to another, and long story short, this Saturday I finally had an opportunity to run a game.

I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with MGT until I happened to notice that two old Grenadier battlesuit 25s I have would work well as combat walkers in 15mm scale. Being a miniatures kind of guy, that, coupled with the fact that Groud Zero Game's new Crusties make great Kafers, pretty much sealed the deal for me. I decided to use MGT to run the old Station Arcturus 2300AD adventure, playing the whole thing out in 15.

The results? Five happy players and one happy GM. I have to admit I really liked the feel of the system, as did my friends, all of them save one Classic Traveller grognards. I believe it completely captures the feel of CT, and improves upon it in many areas. If I had any complaints, it would be along the lines of, "why drop a bunch of battlesuit drawings between a series of important tables" and other minor quibbles.

Fwiw, my game of choice since 1986 has been GURPS. The fact that I have about 9 playtest credits in that system might say something about how much I like GURPS. Having now played MGT, I may actually prefer MGT over GURPS. At the very least, games I've considered running using GURPS I'm now contemplating running with MGT instead. If I do, I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

If_ you are the kind of player (like me ) that has to have the latest edition of everything, then yes. However, every Paranoia book we released is compatible with the new range. With RQ, you can use all the books you listed with the new edition - there are elements of the new edition that do replace the older books, sure, but it is up to you which version you use. For example, if you have the new RQII core book, the Glorantha sourcebook and Player's Guide to Glorantha supplement are just as valid with little, if any, tweaking as the new editions we'll do. They can be used pretty much as is.

Of course, we think the new editions are better and that people should upgrade for the full 'Glorantha Experience' (!), but there is no requirement that you do so on a _rules_ front. And Elric and Hawkmoon are stand alone games - you can carry on with them quite merrily for years, if you wish.

Naturally, though, we'll try to tempt you with the new ones but it is not our place (or position) to ruthlessly invalidate your entire collection. Play with what you think will be the best for your group.

Yup, I realise people dont have to upgrade, its just that its so darned tempting. Playing with old MRQ seems like last years broken toys (no pun intended!).

Thing is, I cant justify every new game purchase, thats partly why I havent jumped into MGT, its not a reflection of the quality of the game. Ive bought into so many games, MRQ. Slaine, Elric, Hawkmoon, Conan, Paranoia.

The original question I posted was a subconcious way to convince myself that I didnt need to upgrade from the classic LBBs!

 

[Supplement Four]

Yup, I realise people dont have to upgrade, its just that its so darned tempting.

I used to feel like this. If a new edition of whatever I liked to play came out, I felt like I had to get it. I was even that way with Traveller.

It all changed, for me, when D6 Star Wars (a rule set I marvel at--perfect for that universe) went to WotC's version and d20.

When was this...10 years? 15 years ago?

Before that time, I bought everything for a game system that I could get my hands on, and then I bought more. I'd always upgrade. With Traveller, I went from Classic to Mega to TNE, rejected TNE, back to Mega, then embraced T4 when it came out...and was utterly disappointed.

Since then, I've gone back to what I really love. Classic Traveller. I ignored GURPS and T20 and THero.

I had really high hopes for MGT, thinking it would be THE game that brought we away from CT, only to have my hopes shattered in the playtest (the playtest is where I turned away from Mongoose Traveller).

But, it was really with the Star Wars game that I realized that old game editions are just as good as new game editions. One expects "newer" to be "better", but I've found this to not be the case.

It really comes down t the game system.

So, now, I'm open to older, out of print game systems. I'm currently playing AD&D 2nd Edition. And, I love the Conan versoin of 3.5 d20. When I play Star Wars, I default to the D6 version. And when I play Traveller, I of course, play only Classic Traveller.

Really, there's nothing wrong with playing an older editon of a game. You don't suddenly have "no fun" in using rules that weren't printed in the last two years.

The original question I posted was a subconcious way to convince myself that I didnt need to upgrade from the classic LBBs!

Go with where your tastes lie. Many hard core grognards will still only play CT.

 

[B_Steele]

The original question I posted was a subconcious way to convince myself that I didnt need to upgrade from the classic LBBs!

Do you need to upgrade from the classics? Of course not! But I think giving the new material a chance beyond a cursory glance could land you another decade (we have the license for at least that long) of new and interesting new products that have their roots in something you really love.

And...speaking of your subconcious...you used the term "upgrade" in your analysis. That means, on some level, you already know that you want to step up into the 21st Century of Traveller...

Cheers,
Bry

 

[GypsyComet]

It all changed, for me, when D6 Star Wars (a rule set I marvel at--perfect for that universe) went to WotC's version and d20.

When was this...10 years? 15 years ago?

Not quite ten years, now. A "political" move, not one driven by any perceived quality lapse of the d6 version. Lucas wanted as much of the Star Wars licensing as possible to go through one company. That meant 'Hasborg' and WotC in this case.

And yes, the system was perfect for the setting.

 

[Gamerguy]

8)

I played CT with MegaTraveller adventures - because i played all my CT ones.

I didn't stop playing CT until the GDW house system came out - I really liked Dark Conspiracy actually.

I was just going to play Gurps Traveller - BUT some of the Mongoose Traveller rules are actually very good and work better than some of the GT rules.

If you wanna just play CT - go for it - a great set of rules. If the Mongoose stuff looks good - play it with the CT rules or make the move to Mongoose Traveller and even use the CT material with it.

I ran the Traveller: New Era adventure "Vampire Fleets" using Gurps Traveller in the Gurps Traveller universe, one thing about Traveller is that the material is very flexable.

8)

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

And...speaking of your subconcious...you used the term "upgrade" in your analysis. That means, on some level, you already know that you want to step up into the 21st Century of Traveller...

Cheers,
Bry

Yes, but I think my subconcious used it in a post-ironic way.

Truth is, Im running a few games at the minute, if I were to rebuy Traveller, it would only be to collect, at least, for the moment. Thats about £250 - £300 for books just to sit on a shelf. When I already have a decent version of the rules, ( rediscovered in a box! Hurrah!). Difficult to justify.

The OP was asking what MGT added to the game. I'd have to make a judgement on that info whether or not to jump in. From what I hear, the game sounds like its been tweaked, i.e., you could, concievably, use old NPC characters in the new game, skills remain similar, stuff remains compatible, lots of books are 'redo's', expansions of original products, i.e., Merc High Guard, Prison Planet, Traders & Gunboats, Scout, Patrons, Spinward Marches, etc..

Perhaps if theres some new 3rd Imp scenario books, Ill pick one up to convert to CT, or perhaps the sector maps, but I cant justify the expenditure, I dont think, to but into the system as a whole. No reflection upon the quality, however.

Now, if Mongoose do a STAND ALONE 2300 AD, THAT may tempt me all over again. But, if I have to buy the Traveller core book, in order to play a Mongoose version of 2300, that may put me off even that.

 

[celmive]

Hiya Prince

IMHO it would be a simple job to run a Mongoose Traveller Adveture using the Classic Traveller rules. Any GM who knows CT could easily start running Tripwire and make adjustments as they went. That is the "Glory" of the Mongoose System. Sure there are tweaks and new career paths but they can easily be swapped over to CT.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Hiya Prince

IMHO it would be a simple job to run a Mongoose Traveller Adveture using the Classic Traveller rules. Any GM who knows CT could easily start running Tripwire and make adjustments as they went. That is the "Glory" of the Mongoose System. Sure there are tweaks and new career paths but they can easily be swapped over to CT.

Cheers celmive

My Traveller campaign took place well away from the Spinward Maches, Ley/Gateway Sectors, actually, I prefer the 'non-cannon' freedom, so Id probably reinvigorate that campaign area. So, no Zhodani Consulate for a good number of parsecs! No Psionics for me, either. I read a review of Tripwire, as its something that I may have bought. Limited use, unfortunately.

 

[rust]

I read a review of Tripwire, as its something that I may have bought. Limited use, unfortunately.

You could take a look at some of the third party material published for
Mongoose Traveller.

Almost all of it could easily be used for Classic Traveller, too, and much
of it covers ground that Classic Traveller ignored, from Flynn's Guide to
Alien Creation to MJD's adventures like Type S and the various new and
interesting ship designs - to mention just a few of them.

In my view this new third party material is a very good reason to take
a close look at Mongoose Traveller. Even if you do not intend to use the
core material, because it somewhat "duplicates" Classic Traveller, this
new third party stuff contains a lot of most useful additions for every Tra-
veller universe I can imagine (there is even a supplement about magic).

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Cheers rust, I'll look into them.

 

[celmive]

Hiya Prince

IMHO it would be a simple job to run a Mongoose Traveller Adveture using the Classic Traveller rules. Any GM who knows CT could easily start running Tripwire and make adjustments as they went. That is the "Glory" of the Mongoose System. Sure there are tweaks and new career paths but they can easily be swapped over to CT.

Cheers celmive

My Traveller campaign took place well away from the Spinward Maches, Ley/Gateway Sectors, actually, I prefer the 'non-cannon' freedom, so Id probably reinvigorate that campaign area. So, no Zhodani Consulate for a good number of parsecs! No Psionics for me, either. I read a review of Tripwire, as its something that I may have bought. Limited use, unfortunately.

Just used this as an example I think ANY would easily work !

Enjoy

 

[Anonymous]

I quite like the mongoose trav rules - they have a *slightly* more cartoony feel than CT but I can live with that. I think that combat is less deadly and that does change the way the game is played considerably.

I like the idea of usuing trav as a generic rule system for different settings - I love judge dredd and think mongoose have captured this just right. Having the rules system already in place means that when I buy a game like dredd I get what I actually want - lots of background, rather than another version of what is essentially "high numbers good, low numbers bad".

My problem is that the 3I stuff isn't really good enough. The adventures lack the internal conistency and "hard" believibilty that the old ones had. Badies behave like orcs in an old school D&D "zoo" dungeon, rather than having their own rather serious and earnest, sometime frightening in an alien way, goals. Deckplans are very broken by lack of careful thought and understanding that a traveller player will asume there is a reason for there not being an airlock somewhere or look for an explanation for the fact the there is no door between the spacecraft hanger and the maintainence area.

Think of "research station gamma" which highlighted clandestine activities of the imperium behemoth. The fantastic "Twilight's Peak" with its uncovering of old truths (and eggs) while keeping the flow of exploation and trade. "Divine Interverntion" with its believable despot etc etc etc. All felt consistent and plausible.

I have no problem with mongoose's "direction of travel" but do think that a lot more care should have been taken to really respect what us old timers had loved so much about this game to keep it alive for 30 years.

Of course its not too late to release excellent 3I product and win us back.....

 

[alex_greene]

My problem is that the 3I stuff isn't really good enough. The adventures lack the internal conistency and "hard" believibilty that the old ones had. Badies behave like orcs in an old school D&D "zoo" dungeon, rather than having their own rather serious and earnest, sometime frightening in an alien way, goals. Deckplans are very broken by lack of careful thought and understanding that a traveller player will asume there is a reason for there not being an airlock somewhere or look for an explanation for the fact the there is no door between the spacecraft hanger and the maintainence area.

Think of "research station gamma" which highlighted clandestine activities of the imperium behemoth. The fantastic "Twilight's Peak" with its uncovering of old truths (and eggs) while keeping the flow of exploration and trade. "Divine Intervention" with its believable despot etc etc etc. All felt consistent and plausible.

The Argon Gambit, where a one-sided fight taking place in the shadow of subtle back-hand political machinations, corruption, Faustian deals and Machiavellian intrigue is broken up by a squad of Imperial Marines in Battle Dress and FGMP-15s blazing.

Secret of The Ancients. Grandfather.

Signal GK, and the sentient chips of Cymbeline which led to the
jaw-grinding Virus storyline.

 

[rust]

Not to mention that all of the Classic Traveller adventures were written
for a science fiction roleplaying game that started with neither science
skills nor a scientist career ... :lol:

I really like Classic Traveller, but it had holes big enough to fly Star War's
Death Star through them. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I don't really understand your points, guys? (honestly, I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm genuinely not sure what you mean)

The background felt real - there was a feeling that there was "STUFF GOING ON OUT THERE" off camera, so to speak. There may be larger than life adventure here where the PCs are, but its still only a drop in the vastness of the imperium....

I can't remember the ending of argon right now, but i do remember a really cool, complicated and consistent set-up, with plausible npcs, a good set of plans for the mansion, the PCs having to plan an intrusion. There was much at stake in a volatile arena , the background politics making the whole thing seem very real indeed.

As for science fiction with no scientist - well that never bothered me that much. I never thought of it as "science fiction" really. That is actually what I liked about it. To me, it is simply set in the far future of humanity. In order to have got that far in the future, science must have progressed. I loved the way that not everything was gizmo-fied. Explosive expansion of gases forcing a projectile down a tube is still a very good weapon - just like a sharp blade always will be. ETC.

 

[rust]

The only interesting Scientist characters in TV/books/movies are those who DON'T do science on screen.

Not in my opinion, just think of a series like CSI.

Add in that the majority of gamers lack the background to play a Scientist ...

The majority of gamers also lack the background to play a starship pilot
or an engineer, and the "real world jobs" of pilots and engineers are at
least as boring as those of scientists.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

The original premise of the game was to focus upon rootless travellers, who cared less about science than we do today. Why should the focus be on a scientist in a scifi game? Its like everyone having to play dragons in D&D.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Well, when the spaceship BANKS when you turn... that is an error...

 

[dmccoy1693]

Well that and the lack of decend anti-Jedi systems

Thermal Detonators. They work really really well against Jedi.