Classic Traveller vs Mongoose Traveller

[B_Steele]

And I tried so hard to get us away from that minefield of a topic ...

It is only a minefield if people cannot rise above the immature opinion-slinging and stick to the facts. Hopefully it will be helpful to the OP as well, who wanted to know the differences. One of these differences is indeed that in CT the game WAS the setting; in MGT the setting is just a piece of the larger game system.

Facts. Easy, and only considered forum-mines to those looking to pick fights.

(Rust - But do not let me ever stop your continued attempts at creating a more civilised and cohesive Mongoose: Traveller community...I find it refreshing and commendable. Seriously.)

Cheers all,
Bry

 

[alex_greene]

No, I'm saying that Mongoose's policy of separating the basic engine from the 3I setting is a brilliant decision.

If you just want the game engine, you've got it. The core book or the Pocket Book (and Fan Boy 3 enthused about how the pocket book was ideal for all the grown up grognards slipping the LBB2.0 into their briefcases so they could game at work) is all you really need to get going; everything with a plain black cover is supplemental. Valuable, for certain, but still supplemental.

The numbered books offer you new careers, some kit, sometimes new ships (High Guard gives you an entire ship design system) and something relevant to the careers they cover (First Contact and Survey protocols for Scout; psionic trauma and Mind Ships for Psion; odd jobs, scams, games of chance, organised crime, piracy and heists for Scoundrel; agencies and bounty hunter tickets for Agent).

Supplements add to the corpus with supplemental data that, while interesting, can often be done without if the budget can't cover buying the books; 760 Patrons, Fighting Ships, Traders and Gunboats, CSC, the Vehicles books and so on.

But all these supplements and adventures, and all the setting books (3I, Dredd, SD, Hammer's Slammers, ABC Warriors) hang on the core rulebook. You can run Traveller without the Third Imperium; you cannot, however, run a Mongoose game set in the 3I/ Judge Dredd/ Strontium Dog without the core rulebook.

That, for me, is probably the greatest innovation Mongoose could have come up with. And I suspect we'll see further proof when their own Pirate Stars setting, or whatever it's called, comes to the stores next year.

At the very least, the new setting will give folks like me a whole new TU to explore, and scope for me to write a whole bunch of material for that setting (with Mongoose's final approval) that I could never write for the far too established 3I setting.

Like I said, a brilliant decision.

 

[The Chef]

No, I'm saying that Mongoose's policy of separating the basic engine from the 3I setting is a brilliant decision.

If you just want the game engine, you've got it. The core book or the Pocket Book (and Fan Boy 3 enthused about how the pocket book was ideal for all the grown up grognards slipping the LBB2.0 into their briefcases so they could game at work) is all you really need to get going; everything with a plain black cover is supplemental. Valuable, for certain, but still supplemental.

The numbered books offer you new careers, some kit, sometimes new ships (High Guard gives you an entire ship design system) and something relevant to the careers they cover (First Contact and Survey protocols for Scout; psionic trauma and Mind Ships for Psion; odd jobs, scams, games of chance, organised crime, piracy and heists for Scoundrel; agencies and bounty hunter tickets for Agent).

Supplements add to the corpus with supplemental data that, while interesting, can often be done without if the budget can't cover buying the books; 760 Patrons, Fighting Ships, Traders and Gunboats, CSC, the Vehicles books and so on.

But all these supplements and adventures, and all the setting books (3I, Dredd, SD, Hammer's Slammers, ABC Warriors) hang on the core rulebook. You can run Traveller without the Third Imperium; you cannot, however, run a Mongoose game set in the 3I/ Judge Dredd/ Strontium Dog without the core rulebook.

That, for me, is probably the greatest innovation Mongoose could have come up with. And I suspect we'll see further proof when their own Pirate Stars setting, or whatever it's called, comes to the stores next year.

At the very least, the new setting will give folks like me a whole new TU to explore, and scope for me to write a whole bunch of material for that setting (with Mongoose's final approval) that I could never write for the far too established 3I setting.

Like I said, a brilliant decision.

indeed , two thumbs way way up!

 

[rust]

indeed , two thumbs way way up!

Yep, the same from me.

 

[alex_greene]

Seriously, I'd love to look at the new setting for Mongoose. If I can write stuff for it, and Mongoose will accept it for publication, I'll be a very happy contributor.

The fact that it's their own TU, with no ties to the old 3I and the heavy baggage that comes with that setting's 32-year-old back story, piques my interest no end. I sense a great adventure of exploration coming on.

 

[The Chef]

Seriously, I'd love to look at the new setting for Mongoose. If I can write stuff for it, and Mongoose will accept it for publication, I'll be a very happy contributor.

The fact that it's their own TU, with no ties to the old 3I and the heavy baggage that comes with that setting's 32-year-old back story, piques my interest no end. I sense a great adventure of exploration coming on.

and thats the real beauty of the system as it stands, we can create any setting we choose, any way we choose it. we can adapt whats been created before or we can recreate it verbartum.

and this is something i truely love about MGT.

 

[RandyT0001]

..........The fact that it's their own TU, with no ties to the old 3I and the heavy baggage that comes with that setting's 32-year-old back story, piques my interest no end. I sense a great adventure of exploration coming on.

and thats the real beauty of the system as it stands, we can create any setting we choose, any way we choose it. we can adapt whats been created before or we can recreate it verbartum.

and this is something i truely love about MGT.

The ability to adapt Traveller to other settings has been there since Classic Traveller and continued through MegaTraveller, T4, Gurps Traveller, D20 Traveller and Hero Traveller. As always take from the rules and supplements what you want to use for your game. This was true for Classic Traveller and Mongoose Traveller. Fusion guns break your 'game reality' take them out. Disc cannon's a no-no, take it out.

Before QLI's T20 Marc Miller did not license Traveller with an OGL, which was very limiting to the publication of other Traveller settings. As QLI's fortunes turned he accepted Mongoose's license deal which also included OGL. Now third party publishers could create Traveller material including other settings outside of the Third Imperium/OTU setting. The biggest differance is that Marc Miller finally found a company financially strong enough (unlike QLI which experienced financial difficulties about two years after releasing T20) to publish other settings besides the OTU/Third Imperium. So it's not so much that Mongoose Traveller is special as much as it's Marc embracing the OGL concept and permitting the last two Traveller publishers to include it in the terms of their contracts. Thank Marc for this (and thank Mongoose for the Foreven license which allows third party publishers the ability to create material useable in the OTU/Third Imperium setting).

IMO

 

[FreeTrav]

The ability to adapt Traveller to other settings has been there since Classic Traveller and continued...

I think you have the right of it here - and that to some extent it has been acknowledged by the Traveller community for a long time: From the Traveller FAQ at Freelance Traveller...

What is Traveller?
There are many answers to this question, all of which are both true and false, depending on your viewpoint, and none of which are complete, even in combination.
Traveller is a role-playing system. Traveller was one of the earliest role-playing systems to divorce the concept of skills from that of occupation or class. Characters did not enter the campaign young and untrained; rather, they had careers during which character development occurred. This was generally perceived as giving the game a more "three-dimensional" feel. While there were some assumptions about the campaign world, an interstellar setting called "the Spinward Marches", little actual information was initially provided, leaving the campaign world to the referee's fertile imagination. The system wasn't static, though; the release of supplements and of subsequent editions of the system, brought more detailed character generation, task systems, rules for skill improvement, and additional skills and rules for them. But Traveller isn't a role-playing system, because you can play GURPS Traveller, which is a different system entirely...
Traveller is a role-playing setting. Traveller eventually came to describe an interstellar community of sorts, focused on a "Third Imperium", of which the original Spinward Marches was merely a small frontier area. Published and well-regarded science fiction was a major source of inspiration for aliens and their societies, and for various aspects of technology. A broad history was mapped out, and cultural differences were developed and illustrated. This led to a background in many ways richer than that of previous role-playing settings, yet without significantly limiting the referee. Again, the setting wasn't static; every release of Traveller or Traveller supplements brought new information to light. But Traveller isn't a role-playing setting, because you can play Traveller in a setting that is unrecognizable in comparison to what's in published material...
Traveller is a continuing story. Or at least it can be. As with any role-playing, it can be an opportunity to develop characters, their likes, dislikes, habits, idiosyncrasies, motivations, and so on. The events of any particular session can be part of a grand story arc throughout the campaign. Or not, if the players and referee choose not to play that way.
Ultimately, Traveller is what you, the referee, and you, the player, want it to be. Which is true of any role-playing game, but not very helpful in defining Traveller. We apologize for that, and invite you to share your own answers to the question "What is Traveller?" on our Feedback page.

Over the years, I've asked for a better answer, and nobody has come up with one that wasn't just a rephrasing of this one....

 

[Infojunky]

Started a new Thread here

As the Topic has wandered.

 

[cbrunish]

Classic Traveller to me is what the title states, a classic. In it's day it was an excellent science fiction role playing game. The only problem I have with the game is minor points which I house ruled.

Now Mongoose Traveller is very similar to CT, actually it seems to be more of MegaTraveller (without the complexity and errors). The character generation is excellent and the ship construction is basic and easy to use.

Because of the similarity to CT, MGT can be used with all of the CT adventures (with some slight modification). To me this makes it a gem. I get a new system of rules but can use the same setting without a problem. This makes me happy!

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Sheesh!

Right, well, firstly, thanks for the replies to my original question, some were thoughtful, insightful, and some accused me of trolling!

Perhaps the original question should have been what does MGT add to the game.

Ive played Traveller since the early days, and it, actually, often has gone under the radar when it comes to my gaming memories. But looking back, Traveller has provided me with many happy experiences, long campaigns, excellent scenario possibilities, etc., etc., I suppose, because Traveller can be seen as excellent game design, it appeared almost effortless at the time.

It was absolutely revolutionary. The way it combined mature treatment of scifi with playability was a marvel of beautiful design. The covers added to the zen-like minimalism.

I suppose all editions of Traveller have added to this initial game, and, whether you like the progress or not, the people making these versions have loved CT too. I dont doubt that MGT is a valid attempt at bringing a classic up to date. Thing is, the original was so freakin' good, its a hard act to follow.

It seems to me that, judging from the posts, this new version bears a decent resemblance to the original, but has been tweaked, and returned to a more generic approach. Thats fine, but, given that someone may own the original, would you recommend the expense of rebuying?

This new version is a pretty huge investment, I dont suppose anyone only ever buys the core book. I just wanted to know your opinion before I dive in. I dont think threatening Supplement Four was a good idea either, his views are just as welcome, and, I know for a fact, that both he and I have spent a good amount on Mongoose products, so I dont appreciate being accused of trolling.

 

[rust]

Thats fine, but, given that someone may own the original, would you recommend the expense of rebuying?

It does of course depend on what parts of a game are the most interesting
and useful ones for you.

In my view and for my purposes the lifepath character generation and the
trade system alone would justify buying the Mongoose Traveller core ru-
lebook, and the ship design and some other sub-systems would make ve-
ry welcome "extras".

If you are not sure whether you will like it enough to spend money on it,
you could download the SRD and take a closer look at it. It contains all
of the basic informations you would need to judge the game, I think.

 

[AndrewW]

+ Lately some useful supplements

Central Supply Catalog (CSC) is a decend book. If you have to choose between it and Mercenaries, buy the CCC. It corrects most problems with the Mercenaries weapon sections (Ranges, calibers, weights etc)

Of course this depends on what you want out of Mercenary. If it's just the equipment then yes I would agree Central Supply Catalogue is the better choice. on the other hand if it's careers, mercenary ticket system, etc then Central Supply Catalogue wouldn't do you much good.

 

[AndrewW]

[Well the careers are not that useful IMHO. They only come into play if you have "pure" Mercs and not for the more common "20 years in the army" types that turn Merc post Chargen.

Ticket system is decend if you want to play out the negotiation process between player(s) and GM. Otherwise it's unneeded.

Description of bases and unit types/sizes etc. is so-so depending on the players and their background/interests. They did a nice job for the less military interested by not using to much "military Slang". For a group that knows it's way around the military it's less useful

As I said it depends on what you are looking for. One might need a group of mercenaries for something in which case Central Supply Catalogue would be useless other then as a potential source of equipment to equip them with.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Heres a slight confusion I still have.

Back in the day, for 6 or 7 quid, you got Mercenary, right? For instance, what has the Mongoose version of Mercenary got that the old version didnt?

The classic LBB has background, chargen, skills, tickets, several versions of the combat system and equipment, besides a host of other details. How has Mongoose expanded this classic? Is it more of the same? New sections, more padding? What?

 

[AndrewW]

Back in the day, for 6 or 7 quid, you got Mercenary, right? For instance, what has the Mongoose version of Mercenary got that the old version didnt?

The classic LBB has background, chargen, skills, tickets, several versions of the combat system and equipment, besides a host of other details. How has Mongoose expanded this classic? Is it more of the same? New sections, more padding? What?

Mostly the same types of sections but adds one on bases. The career focus is on mercenary careers rather then expanding on army and marines. But there is more to it at 108 pages versus 52. So over double the page count, then figure in inflation I don't think the price is out of line.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Back in the day, for 6 or 7 quid, you got Mercenary, right? For instance, what has the Mongoose version of Mercenary got that the old version didnt?

The classic LBB has background, chargen, skills, tickets, several versions of the combat system and equipment, besides a host of other details. How has Mongoose expanded this classic? Is it more of the same? New sections, more padding? What?

Mostly the same types of sections but adds one on bases. The career focus is on mercenary careers rather then expanding on army and marines. But there is more to it at 108 pages versus 52. So over double the page count, then figure in inflation I don't think the price is out of line.

No, not at all. By all accounts, Mongoose have done a good job of it if RPG.net is correct. Mercenary gets a bit of a panning, but the range as a whole seems to be recommended.

 

[B_Steele]

Mercenary gets a bit of a panning...

That, unfortunately, would be mostly my fault. Between writing Mercenary when the actual Trav rules were not quite set in stone and shooting (no pun intended) for a fun gaming supplement instead of a hard-crunch factbook, it kind of missed the mark with many of the Trav fans.

It did well with people who wanted a fun book for their games, but it did not fair very well with the real-world militarists (of which I am NOT) or the set-in-the-ways old CT types.

Hell, I wrote it and use it heavily in my own Trav chronicle, but compared to the other Trav stuff I've done thus far, I give it a solid "C".

-Bry

 

[BP]

Hey - two thumbs up and an A++ for ownership! (Don't have Mercenary - but I'd probably like it - the most vocal are probably the minority - they usually are). 8)

 

[Gamerguy]

:lol:

Mercenary for CT sold in droves of copies. It was at the the time the best RPG supplement of any sort released for any system.

It only had ONE illustration - but it was a REALLY good one. A soldier.

For its time, Mercenary for CT was simply an amazing product.