Classic Traveller vs Mongoose Traveller

Im sure this must have been discussed before but...

Something wonderful happened to me. I was about to get into Mongoose Traveller, after losing my Classic books some time ago, but, amazingly, I found all my old books again! How often does that happen?!

Obviously, the question now is, whats the difference? Can I, say, use the Mongoose Traveller GM screen with the Classic books? Is it fully compatible? Can I use the adventures with no conversion work? I have all of the original sourcebooks, the supplements and some adventures and Judges Guild stuff. Recommend any books as necessary?

What, exactly, are the differences?

Thanks people!
 
I would not consider Classic Traveller and Mongoose Traveller as "fully
compatible", there are many small differences in the details of the rules,
and character generation is very much different.

In my view you can use all of your Classic Traveller material with Mon-
goose Traveller without major problems, but it makes sense to do so on-
ly after looking through it to see where differences might be.

Someone once posted a comprehensive list of all the differences here on
this forum, and it was not overly long. Unfortunately I did not find it now,
and I lack the patience to write one ... :oops:
 
Congrats on your find and rediscovering your Traveller urge!

MGT has the look and feel of CT and is designed to align well with UWP and such. It, however, differs in game mechanics and some of the details. The skill check, design and combat systems are quite different. And the costs and capabilities of things have been changed in a number of places.

So, if you were to play with say a group of MGT players - play would be different. But you could quite readily use your CT maps (planet/subsector...), characters and gear (some changes in the details). And the 3I setting retains naming and events (with added detail).

With the rapidly growing works of MGT and the massive amount of source for CT - any detailed list of every difference would likewise require quite a volume by now.

I would use 'revised and extended' to describe MGT's relationship to CT.
 
In terms of how the game plays, the major difference I found is that combat is less deadly than it used to be.
 
rust said:
Someone once posted a comprehensive list of all the differences here on
this forum, and it was not overly long. Unfortunately I did not find it now,
and I lack the patience to write one ... :oops:

Does anybody have the link for this list of differences?

Pax et bonum,

Dale
 
Sylvre Phire said:
Does anybody have the link for this list of differences?
I tried to find it with the forum's Search function, but it offered me more
than 2,000 threads with the term "Classic" to choose from ... :shock:
 
8)
Mongoose Traveller is an updated version of Classic Traveller. CT was great in its day, but somethings have stood the test of time better than others.

I'd suggest using the Mongoose rules with the Classic Traveller books used for additional background and adventure material. You can always run "Annic Nova" for example using any set of Traveller rules.

I'm running a combination Mongoose and Classic Traveller adventure: http://www.playbyweb.com/fire1.php?_b=15373 using CT as additional adventure material as we speak.

:D
 
Gamerguy said:
Mongoose Traveller is an updated version of Classic Traveller.

I disagree. Mongoose is it's own system. The combat resolution is different. The character generation has some similarities with Classic generation, more like a highly distilled down expanded system in the Mercenary/High Guard/Scouts/Merchant Prince books intergrated into the more limited resolution method from the Characters book (LBB1). No, Mongoose is not an 'updated' version of Classic Traveller. It's the newest and latest version of Traveller that stands on it's own.
 
The nice thing is that most of the CT adventures can be easily adapted to MGT with a little bit of changes (ships, ect.,).
 
If you're familiar with MT you can adapt the CT adventures with little to no difficulty. I find that they're about 90% similar (I use a CT character generator for NPCs), and a cursory read-through and checking of stats is all that I really need before I can run the adventure (and really, you should be doing that anyway).

I would recommend the updated versions of the core book and supplements. You don't NEED them to play the game (one of the bonuses of Traveller is that you only NEED one book), but having updated versions is handy. This is the opinion of myself and my gaming group who have played all versions of Traveller, and do a fair amount of adaptation between systems.
 
One thing that doesn't look like has been mentioned is the "feel" of the game. It's an area that has disgusted me from Mongoose's take on it.

Classic Traveller, as it grew from a purely generic-anything-goes game into a its more defined universe, became a Golden Era science fiction universe: It nods its head to hard science but is really an adventure game, in the grand tradition of 50's-60's-70's science fiction literature.

Mongoose Traveller's feel is becoming more and more a fantasy type game, with Vargr weilding two katanas ready to slice and dice you, just like an anime movie.

Now, that's not a bad feel that Mongoose is supporting--it's just not what Traveller has been. And, I reject it.

Some are embracing the change. You may be one of them. But, just be aware that there is a differnent "atmosphere" to each game.
 
i've yet to see a dual katana weilding vargr.

MGT is much more accessible, and does appeal to a broader spectrum of player, and this is one of its greatest assets.

Chef
 
Supplement Four said:
But, just be aware that there is a differnent "atmosphere" to each game.
In my view the referee and his players determine the "atmosphere" of the
game. If I want to, I can play Mongoose Traveller with exactly the same
"atmosphere" as Classic Traveller, there is nothing in the Mongoose Tra-
veller system that would make this impossible, or even difficult.
 
Supplement Four said:
But, just be aware that there is a differnent "atmosphere" to each game.

This has been true of every edition so far. It is also, as Rust points out, true for every table around which Traveller is played. Every time the basic assumptions of the setting come under inspection by a group of people, here or anywhere else online or in person, everyone in that discussion is playing a different game and approaching those basic assumptions from a different direction. They all call it Traveller.

I'm sure there is a dual Katana wielding Vargr or two out there, even in the mythical structure we refer to as Traveller Canon, because Vargr can and will fall for anything with more charisma than their current situation, there are Vargr just about *everywhere* in known space (the 2000 Worlds being an obvious exception), and the fighting style of the Katana suits the generally lower physical strength and higher agility of the Vargr. A blatantly Japanophile Vargr sounds like a hoot. I certainly wouldn't disallow one, though I would draw the line at whole worlds of them.

There is at least one fallacy at work amongst the older fandom, in my opinion. Many people who used to play seem to think that active games are still dominated by the Free Trader model, and anything that detracts even slightly from that is bad. On the flip side, a lot of the armchair admirals believe that the basis of Traveller is its wargames, starting with CT High Guard and Striker, and that anything that detracts from the wargame/simulationist model is a bad thing.

Mongoose is completely avoiding the simulations/wargame side of Traveller, so that automatically biases a bunch of the old armchair admirals, amateur economists, and gun-bunnies against this edition of Traveller.

The Third Imperium setting is not front-and-center in this edition, and that automatically biases another subset of old-timers against this edition, despite the FACT that they already have all the information they will ever accept as Canon already in their possession.

PrinceYyrkoon said:
Obviously, the question now is, whats the difference? Can I, say, use the Mongoose Traveller GM screen with the Classic books? Is it fully compatible? Can I use the adventures with no conversion work? I have all of the original sourcebooks, the supplements and some adventures and Judges Guild stuff. Recommend any books as necessary?

Fully compatible? No. Screens are going to be different, too.

Classic adventures will only require conversion of the hardware to an equivalent. The skill set and what the skill numbers mean will be virtually identical, since both editions are 2d6. Using MegaTraveller materials only really requires understanding what the MT Task block is telling you, as all of the concepts within that task system are present in Mongoose.

CT ships can be used pretty much as-is if they are just window-dressing. If you are going to make a CT ship a central detail, then convert it, knowing that some details of the original may need fudging or were fudged in the first place.

Weaponry should be from, or get converted to, whichever basic rule set you are using. It will not usually be very difficult. You may need Mongoose's Central Supply Catalog for a few things if you are converting towards Mongoose, and have CT Mercenary and maybe Striker if you are converting towards CT/MT.

Keep in mind that Mongoose does not have a fleet combat engine like CT's High Guard. If you have a fleet action to resolve, you may want to stick to High Guard, or resolve it ahead of time for your story purposes.

PrinceYyrkoon said:
What, exactly, are the differences?

"Exactly" will turn into a long list. In short:

Armor's role in combat is as a modifier to hit in CT, but as a reducer of the damage roll in MGT.

The skill "Task" system is implied in CT but demonstrated as a large set of examples and special cases, while it is more codified with flexibility in MGT. Characteristic modifiers to skill rolls are task specific in magnitude in CT, but static in MGT. Neither edition sets the relationship between a skill and a specific characteristic; both are task specific (This is almost unique to Traveller, by the way; most other games hardlink a characteristic to each skill).

The personal weapons list in MGT has a few omissions, most of which are covered in the Central Supply Catalog.

Character generation has a few extra bells and whistles in MGT compared to Basic CT. The resulting character will generally have a few more skills than a Basic CT (Book 1, Supplement 4) character, but not as many as an Advanced CT (Books 4-7) character. Single-source your characters and you'll be fine, but that source can be any of the three.

The specific numbers of starship construction are different, and as noted there is no fleet combat engine in MGT. The core book for Mongoose is also without implied setting, and allows some construction options that CT does not. Stay with CT's options, which are the implicit assumptions of the Third Imperium setting in CT and MT, or throw caution to the wind and chart your own course.

I'm sure someone will be along with more.
 
rust said:
In my view the referee and his players determine the "atmosphere" of the
game.

This is true. I thought about adding the same thought to my post above just before I posted it, but I decided against it because games do have an "atmosphere" to them that a GM may choose to change if he wants. But, they do have an atmosphere--a feel--a style to them.

As an example, I'm about to run the original DragonLance saga, using AD&D 2nd edition, but, as a GM, I'm completely changing the atmosphere of that universe. It will be the same story told in a fresh and different way than the official version of DragonLance.

That's my choice, though. Any game can be changed at the GM's discretion.

My point is that Mongoose Traveller does have a "feel" to it that's different than Classic Traveller's, and that MGT atmosphere finds its way into the adventures and supplements.

I wanted to let the poster of the OP know about that difference, since he asked.
 
The Chef said:
i've yet to see a dual katana weilding vargr.

Not a dual weild, but have you seen the Vargr/Ninja on the cover of the MGT Vargr Alien Module?

That hardly promotes the feeling of Classic Traveller.

It's more as I said: Super hero fantasy space opera.

Not bad, but definitely not Classic Traveller either.
 
Supplement Four said:
The Chef said:
i've yet to see a dual katana weilding vargr.

Not a dual weild, but have you seen the Vargr/Ninja on the cover of the MGT Vargr Alien Module?

That hardly promotes the feeling of Classic Traveller.

It's more as I said: Super hero fantasy space opera.

Not bad, but definitely not Classic Traveller either.

The Irklan are part of Classic Traveller, and the Solomani have been a lovely combination of Space Nazi and Space Soviet from pretty early.

Is it "super hero fantasy space opera"? Depends on how hard it is to kill the ninja.
 
GypsyComet said:
This has been true of every edition so far.

I understand your point, Gypsy. But just to note: That really hasn't been true of every edition.

Classic Traveller, MegaTraveller, GURPS Traveller, and I presume (because I never played it) Traveller 20 are all very close in tone and atmosphere. The universes are very interchangeable.

Marc Miller's Traveller is a bit of a departure, but still shaded by Classic Traveller's tone.

Then, there's Traveller The New Era. There's a major atmosphere change in TNE.

I know little about Traveller HERO, so I can't comment.



I'd place Mongoose Traveller, in terms of tone/feel/atmosphere somewhere between T4 and TNE. It's farther away from CT than T4 is but not as quite a "universe change" as that seen in TNE.
 
Supplement Four said:
My point is that Mongoose Traveller does have a "feel" to it that's different than Classic Traveller's, and that MGT atmosphere finds its way into the adventures and supplements.
Yes, of course. :)

If the same group would play the same adventure, one time with Classic
Traveller and one time with Mongoose Traveller, for example the lifepath
character generation of Mongoose Traveller with the connection rule and
the thereby intertwined character biographies could give the adventure
another "feel" than the more lose character generation of Classic Travel-
ler would do - and there are more examples of such differences that might
influence the "atmosphere".

I just think that this is true, but somewhat secondary, compared to the
far greater influence of the referee's and players' "style", but I do not
deny that it exists.
 
Supplement Four said:
The Chef said:
i've yet to see a dual katana weilding vargr.

Not a dual weild, but have you seen the Vargr/Ninja on the cover of the MGT Vargr Alien Module?

That hardly promotes the feeling of Classic Traveller.

It's more as I said: Super hero fantasy space opera.

Not bad, but definitely not Classic Traveller either.

The image in question for me creates a response "for once an artist who (imo) gets the look and fell of traveller right" at least in my book.

Ben Wooton's other work includes the covers for tripwire, spinward marches and aslan and defines in a visual way the universe i've created since CT.

in a way I'm very glad it doesn't completely relate to CT.

Chef
 
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