Some of the people in my playing group think that the Centauri fleet is too powerfull. I do agree that a couple of the ships are a bit tough but there some ships out there among the other races that make me a bit nervous when I see them on the table. Is the Centauri too powerfull or is that just a excuse for the vanquished.
Centauri Fleet Broken?
- Thread starter Morakas
- Start date
They have some uber ships in the raid & battle priorities & are dead simple to use. It's the amount of Fwd arc Beam dice backed up AP,DD weapons that makes them pretty tough to beat. Once a person is experienced with a Centauri fleet your opponent needs either to have good luck your you to have terrible dice rolls to win.
The Prefect is among the worst offenders luckily they do have some weak points, eg no rear arc which isn't much good to you if you can't get past the fwd arc.
The Tertius is equal with the Prefect in cheese. Way more firepower than primus for the loss of 2 sentri's & a interceptor.
The Sulust is pretty damn good but is hull which kinda makes up for it but even though it is my favourite ships it needs it's hits to go down by 10.
They tried to make up for it by having crap skirmish ships but we just don't take them.
The Prefect is among the worst offenders luckily they do have some weak points, eg no rear arc which isn't much good to you if you can't get past the fwd arc.
The Tertius is equal with the Prefect in cheese. Way more firepower than primus for the loss of 2 sentri's & a interceptor.
The Sulust is pretty damn good but is hull which kinda makes up for it but even though it is my favourite ships it needs it's hits to go down by 10.
They tried to make up for it by having crap skirmish ships but we just don't take them.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
The Primus is tough but mostly fair. The same goes for the Maximus. The Corvan and the Sulust are riding the thin edge of reasonable by most standards. It's more likely than not that they're broken. The Tertius and Prefect, are, to put it bluntly, manifestly unfair. These ships have been called, informally, "The Beam Team", and have a bad history of being overpowered and usually not really requiring a lot of grey matter to use.
I actually use Vorchans with Primus. I just wish they gave the Primus more than just 2 types of weapons maybe an Ion Cannon or something.
Prefects is a win at all costs ship and coming from a Centauri player, they need to go. I prefer the Altarian anyways for a good mix of weapons and fighters. Please someone make the Haven worth its patrol choice because the Corvan just rules at Patrol. I would also like to see a more combat type of Corvan that isint a scout for some variety.
although the Centauri are a top teir race, I wish I had some of the skirmish choices that Narn get.
Prefects is a win at all costs ship and coming from a Centauri player, they need to go. I prefer the Altarian anyways for a good mix of weapons and fighters. Please someone make the Haven worth its patrol choice because the Corvan just rules at Patrol. I would also like to see a more combat type of Corvan that isint a scout for some variety.
although the Centauri are a top teir race, I wish I had some of the skirmish choices that Narn get.
Morakas said:
I tried 1 Secundus, 1 Altarian and 4 Vorchans.
I sent the Altarian and Secundus in hoping they would suck up fire power (which they did cause Hull 6 ROX!) while the Vorchans flanked. I was against 3 Hyperions and an Omega (it was all we had).
I eventually lost, extremely upset at my Vorchans performance.
I have changed mt fleet and am awaiting my chance to use it :twisted: .
Either way, yes, as many people have said, the Centauri have an impressive number of ships that need to be toned down (Prefect, Teretius), but generally, true gamers don't use them in excess because they know they are disgustingly unfair and ruin the game.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Id generally agree with what has been said thusfar:
The Centauri as a whole are not broken.
The Primus is nasty but fair. Same for the Maximus. I'd actually say the same for the Corvan, its one of the nastier patrol ships but not still perfectly fair in my eyes.
Now we get to the problem ships:
1) The Sullust. Now I'll start of and say the Sullust is NOT broken. It is perhaps a tad bent... It has a HUGE amount of firepower for a raid level ship but no worse than many others (though most of them dont have it as beams with forward arc...). The issue with the Sullust is rather that for a heavily armed ship with good range it is possibly SLIGHTLY too tough and could do with losing some hit points. Used sensibly its still fair though in my eyes and only starts pushing it a bit when used en masse.
2) The Prefect. Now this is REALLY pushing it. Even MORE firepower than the Sullust (which is already treading a fine line), and the loss of a couple of interceptors is MORE than made up for with the increase to hull 6. The prefect is certainly beatable but most people agree that it is simply too good and shouldnt be used much (or at all!). Certainly taking multiples of them in a relatively small game would be considered blatant powergaming by most!
3) The Tertius. Basically a bigger Prefect. Again its can be beaten but it simply has too much firepower to be fair. Most races WAR level ships can only just about match its forward firepower! (or VERY slightly exceed it). NO races War level choices are a match for two Tertius in my oppinion. Not even close.
Overall I'd have to say Centauri ARE a perfectly fine list AS LONG AS YOU:
Dont use Tertius or Prefects
Use Sullusts only in moderation
Keep to these simple rules and I think you'll find your opponensts not only complain less but you yourself will enjoy playing Centauri more too
The Centauri as a whole are not broken.
The Primus is nasty but fair. Same for the Maximus. I'd actually say the same for the Corvan, its one of the nastier patrol ships but not still perfectly fair in my eyes.
Now we get to the problem ships:
1) The Sullust. Now I'll start of and say the Sullust is NOT broken. It is perhaps a tad bent... It has a HUGE amount of firepower for a raid level ship but no worse than many others (though most of them dont have it as beams with forward arc...). The issue with the Sullust is rather that for a heavily armed ship with good range it is possibly SLIGHTLY too tough and could do with losing some hit points. Used sensibly its still fair though in my eyes and only starts pushing it a bit when used en masse.
2) The Prefect. Now this is REALLY pushing it. Even MORE firepower than the Sullust (which is already treading a fine line), and the loss of a couple of interceptors is MORE than made up for with the increase to hull 6. The prefect is certainly beatable but most people agree that it is simply too good and shouldnt be used much (or at all!). Certainly taking multiples of them in a relatively small game would be considered blatant powergaming by most!
3) The Tertius. Basically a bigger Prefect. Again its can be beaten but it simply has too much firepower to be fair. Most races WAR level ships can only just about match its forward firepower! (or VERY slightly exceed it). NO races War level choices are a match for two Tertius in my oppinion. Not even close.
Overall I'd have to say Centauri ARE a perfectly fine list AS LONG AS YOU:
Dont use Tertius or Prefects
Use Sullusts only in moderation
Keep to these simple rules and I think you'll find your opponensts not only complain less but you yourself will enjoy playing Centauri more too
the centauri arn't broken. they have a couple of ships that are very good for their level but far from broken as a whole.
The prefect can be beaten, i beat a 4 prefect fleet in my 1st tourney, no rear guns, only 1 turn. and the tertius whilst better armed than a primus is only better armed once you get up close and personal.
I have beaten centauri and been beaten by them. they do have alot of advantages as have been stated at the moment but just cos you play centauri doesnt mean you have to take the best ships all the time.
I ran a 6 vorchan, 4 maximus fleet against alexs vorlons and found its quite a powerful fleet. probably would be beaten by a narn bat squad but then thats the narn bat sqaud. in some peoples books thats as broken as the centauri beam team.
and dont forget the drakh can manage to match the 4 prefect fleet with 4 lt cruisers, a raider and 2 scouts. plus their beams are precise.
then theres the dilgar with high AD AP DD weapons that are TD on crits, and according to someone i used dilgar against the other night are also broken.
it all comes down to peoples points of view. some people think one fleet is broken, others think another is. some people think the minbari are cos of stealth, others think the ISA are cos of WS dodges and other traits. in one off games, or friendly games remember the term friendly, use some of the lesser used ships, try something new. for example my fav raid ship is the dargan, looks cool and i usually run more of them than prefects.
The prefect can be beaten, i beat a 4 prefect fleet in my 1st tourney, no rear guns, only 1 turn. and the tertius whilst better armed than a primus is only better armed once you get up close and personal.
I have beaten centauri and been beaten by them. they do have alot of advantages as have been stated at the moment but just cos you play centauri doesnt mean you have to take the best ships all the time.
I ran a 6 vorchan, 4 maximus fleet against alexs vorlons and found its quite a powerful fleet. probably would be beaten by a narn bat squad but then thats the narn bat sqaud. in some peoples books thats as broken as the centauri beam team.
and dont forget the drakh can manage to match the 4 prefect fleet with 4 lt cruisers, a raider and 2 scouts. plus their beams are precise.
then theres the dilgar with high AD AP DD weapons that are TD on crits, and according to someone i used dilgar against the other night are also broken.
it all comes down to peoples points of view. some people think one fleet is broken, others think another is. some people think the minbari are cos of stealth, others think the ISA are cos of WS dodges and other traits. in one off games, or friendly games remember the term friendly, use some of the lesser used ships, try something new. for example my fav raid ship is the dargan, looks cool and i usually run more of them than prefects.
Yeah, the maximus/vorchan combo was good, but IIRC it still lost when a few ships popped - personally, I find the Centauri a bit distasteful, but that's primarily because I dont like the way that the AD/range of the weapons and the hull/damage/crew values balance out against other races like narn and minbari (minbari especially).
Centauri seem to get much more beam at ever PL, with more range and more dice than anyone else; they also have tougher hulls and better damage than most, and pay for it by losing out on some trivial things like lacking rear arcs - honestly with the quality and quantity of low-PL ships they get can cover those weaknesses happily.
I wouldn't call them outright broken, but quite imbalanced - but let's put it this way (and I'm sure Kat can attest to this) every time I've beaten him with his Centauri, it's been after he's lost a ship outright to a particularly nasty critical - you could argue that's how the fleets I play are supposed to win (Vorlon, Minbari) but I dont know if that's a good thing. That tells you alot - in order to lose, they either have to get unlucky, or you have to get lucky.
Centauri seem to get much more beam at ever PL, with more range and more dice than anyone else; they also have tougher hulls and better damage than most, and pay for it by losing out on some trivial things like lacking rear arcs - honestly with the quality and quantity of low-PL ships they get can cover those weaknesses happily.
I wouldn't call them outright broken, but quite imbalanced - but let's put it this way (and I'm sure Kat can attest to this) every time I've beaten him with his Centauri, it's been after he's lost a ship outright to a particularly nasty critical - you could argue that's how the fleets I play are supposed to win (Vorlon, Minbari) but I dont know if that's a good thing. That tells you alot - in order to lose, they either have to get unlucky, or you have to get lucky.
well have been playing your vorlons, and did take only dargans and darkners agains them one shot killing a dargan didnt help.
as for more beam dice. the EA can match the sullust beam, but yes its boresight, or they have a 6AD beam at raid as well (yes boresight again). they also have an 8AD beam at war level.
the drakh can match the prefect with light cruisers, but have precise as well.
the narn are the only race i can currently think of to have so many beams at skirmish, which is made up for by lacking them at battle.
the minbari generally have less beams than anyone but all forward arc precise.
one shot killing a dargan didnt help.as for more beam dice. the EA can match the sullust beam, but yes its boresight, or they have a 6AD beam at raid as well (yes boresight again). they also have an 8AD beam at war level.
the drakh can match the prefect with light cruisers, but have precise as well.
the narn are the only race i can currently think of to have so many beams at skirmish, which is made up for by lacking them at battle.
the minbari generally have less beams than anyone but all forward arc precise.
Yes, forward arc precise, but in comparison to the Centauri, minbari beams also have less AD, and less range at raid PL (to match the Octurions range at war you have to take a Sharkaan which has 1/2 the AD!) they dont even get beams at skirmish (heck, they barely get a ship).
Even comparing the smaller of the games we've played recently - 2 dargans and a darkner have 2 AD of 25 inch SAP beams, 2 more AD of SAP at 20 inches, and that's at 5 skirmish - but if you'd taken 5 darkners, you'd have 10AD. Narn meanwhile have got the 5 ka'tan option which gives them a mix of 20AD of (boresight) beams - they're definately the most 'broken' at skirmish, but in raid and battle I think that the Centauri definately take the cake.
The most beam a vorlon could manage in a 5 skirm game is 8 AD of AP precise (at either 12 or 18 inches) plus another 12 AD on easy-to-kill fighters. Minbari could get 4 AD of 20 inch beams and that's it...
You're right that Drakh actually do get a fair amount of beam on their raid ships, but at skirmish their beams are heavily restricted by range (8 inches).
Even comparing the smaller of the games we've played recently - 2 dargans and a darkner have 2 AD of 25 inch SAP beams, 2 more AD of SAP at 20 inches, and that's at 5 skirmish - but if you'd taken 5 darkners, you'd have 10AD. Narn meanwhile have got the 5 ka'tan option which gives them a mix of 20AD of (boresight) beams - they're definately the most 'broken' at skirmish, but in raid and battle I think that the Centauri definately take the cake.
The most beam a vorlon could manage in a 5 skirm game is 8 AD of AP precise (at either 12 or 18 inches) plus another 12 AD on easy-to-kill fighters. Minbari could get 4 AD of 20 inch beams and that's it...
You're right that Drakh actually do get a fair amount of beam on their raid ships, but at skirmish their beams are heavily restricted by range (8 inches).
I've played centauri for a while, and mainly stuck to the "out of the box"ships, and at this level I'd say no, they are not broken. I have found them to be almost a fleet of opposites though. On one hand you have some quite good and easy to use large ships that can be quite forgiving to play with. And on the other you have your skirmishers that if you make one wrong move with them, they evaporate. I'm not saying that they are bad, I really like my vorchans, but you just have to be a bit careful in how you use them. (It is an evily satisfying thing when they full speed it to somewhere unexpected) I've stayed away from tertius and prefects because I kind of agree with CZuschlag, they are kind of overpowered. I'm wondering what 2e will do to my beloved fan heads. At the least it sounds like a rethink of playing style.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
The Centauri have a couple of broken ships. So does just about every other race.
The major problem with Centauri is that they don't accurately represent what's seen on the screen. A line of heavy beam-carrying ships crawling towards the enemy while blasting them to bits doesn't bear much resemblance to the Centauri warships we see in the show.
Hopefully these broken fleet witch hunts will disappear when 2nd ed comes along. Or at least, the Centauri won't be the target any more...
The major problem with Centauri is that they don't accurately represent what's seen on the screen. A line of heavy beam-carrying ships crawling towards the enemy while blasting them to bits doesn't bear much resemblance to the Centauri warships we see in the show.
Hopefully these broken fleet witch hunts will disappear when 2nd ed comes along. Or at least, the Centauri won't be the target any more...
Alexb83 said:
It has always seemed to me that Minbari especially in this game win or loose on luck - more than other fleets. If the stealth works they can be devestating and unstopable - if it does not - they are sitting ducks............but thats an issue with Stealth across the game - just highlighted in Minbari fleets cos that is their main defence.
The problem with Centauri seems primarily to be the Prefect (which is gone for 2nd Ed
) the Tertius (hopefully same way) and general over beam power - which has also apparently been reduced.Minbari mini beams hitting on 4's against everyone will increase their power and may reduce the importance of hull 6 (as do the new beam rules)?
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I wasn't naming names for a very good reason. Everyone knows what the broken ships are, for every fleet.
Da Boss said:
The problem here is that the indications are that most ships are having their beam dice axed because beams are supposedly now more effective (in many ways the 4+ hit balances itself out against the broad range of targets and makes beams no more or less effective than they ever were).
Given how few AD minbari already get (they dont even get any until raid level, and even then 2AD on one ship), axing them further is a bit of a joke for a fleet which we see in the show exclusively using beams (the smattering of pulsars from the whitestars dont count, because apparently that's not a minbo ship
)
