Centauri Fleet Broken?

[emperorpenguin]

Played around with it quite a bit the other night, and you do get much bigger swings more often. Both ways. That left me feeling that we were favoring luck much more and tactics less. Ripple

tactics always go out the window once dice are involved

tactics is what you do when not rolling dice

 

[Tank]

tactics always go out the window once dice are invloved?

you'd have to elaborate on that as I'd say that tactics are involved throughtout!! :lol:

 

[emperorpenguin]

tactics always go out the window once dice are invloved?

you'd have to elaborate on that as I'd say that tactics are involved throughtout!! :lol:

what is tactical about a random dice roll?

you can position your ships tactically.
choose targets tactically etc

but to say that hitting on 4+ is less tactical seems odd

 

[Tank]

ah so you're only worrying about rolling dice then?

So obviously it's a tactical game ruined by randomness? :lol:

 

[emperorpenguin]

ah so you're only worrying about rolling dice then?

So obviously it's a tactical game ruined by randomness? :lol:

Ripple is worried by the dice rolling.....

Second comment on the 4+ beams hit rule -

Played around with it quite a bit the other night, and you do get much bigger swings more often. Both ways. That left me feeling that we were favoring luck much more and tactics less.

One of my friends once complained that dice rolls are too random and wargames should be decided on averages!

There are good non-dice games out there, Chess obviously, Phalanx, Diplomacy....

 

[Tank]

But then wargames wouldnt be wargames :lol:

And good non dice games also arent wargames :lol:

And yes there are plenty of good non dice games, Finstere Fleur, Peurto Rico, Wings of War, and far too many others I can't remember :lol:

 

[emperorpenguin]

And good non dice games also arent wargames :lol: :

Chess and Phalanx are wargames :wink:

but yes you have to have a random element in a game really.

 

[Tank]

Can't say anything about phalanx but chess is a very abstracted wargame

 

[emperorpenguin]

Can't say anything about phalanx but chess is a very abstracted wargame

ah you admit it is still a wargame :wink: indeed the first

 

[Tank]

Kind of, it's more a pure strategy game than a proper wargame

 

[emperorpenguin]

Kind of, it's more a pure strategy game than a proper wargame

I'd call it tactical rather than strategic

but then what is the definition of a "proper wargame"?

 

[Tank]

Nope Chess is definately a strategy game, you have to play te long game in chess which de facto makes it strategy.

As too a proper wargame, you have to include something that represents the randomness that occurs during any battle, dice is as good a way as any :lol:

 

[emperorpenguin]

Nope Chess is definately a strategy game, you have to play te long game in chess which de facto makes it strategy.
:

Clausewitz and the US army would disagree with you :wink:

Tactics: The employment of units in combat. 2. The ordered arrangement and maneuver of units in relation to each other and/or to the enemy in order to use their full potentialities

the execution of plans and manœuvering of forces in battle

Strategy: the employment of battles to gain the end of war

 

[Tank]

Really? Nice quotes, wish I could do that.

But you're taking the short view, tactics are used to implement strategy. Tactics are a short gain action, strategy is all about the long view. to get the best success in chess you need to take the long view, hence it's a strategy game. In fact to get the best out of any game you need a strategy.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Really? Nice quotes, wish I could do that.

read Clausewitz or Sun Tzu then :wink:

But you're taking the short view, tactics are used to implement strategy. Tactics are a short gain action, strategy is all about the long view. to get the best success in chess you need to take the long view, hence it's a strategy game. In fact to get the best out of any game you need a strategy.

no I'm taking Clausewitz's view that strategy applies to grand scale thinking. a battlefield (as in chess) is tactical.
you won't agree with me though so I won't continue

 

[CZuschlag]

For diceless wargames, we have two obvious suggestions -- Tactics II from Avalon Hill, and Bonaparte at Marengo by Simmons Games. One you could claim as abstract, but the other hides randomness by using hidden troop strengths, but it completely deterministic, in the same mechanic as Stratego (but miles more accurately implemented!) and purports to simulate one of the crucial battles of European history.

You can argue that Tactics II is a stretegic game, but Bonaparte at Marengo is most definitely at least tactical.

 

[vitalis6969]

Some of the people in my playing group think that the Centauri fleet is too powerfull. I do agree that a couple of the ships are a bit tough but there some ships out there among the other races that make me a bit nervous when I see them on the table. Is the Centauri too powerfull or is that just a excuse for the vanquished.

I like fighting the centauri fleet, but the Tertiary cruiser is a joke, plain and simple.

-V

 

[vitalis6969]

On the whole dice thing...

There is a real simple fix and any of you who have ever played Advanced D&D, dig out your now ancient copy of the DMs guide and look at the paragraphs written on linear curve (the effect of rolling one die) vs bell curve (the effect of rolling two or more dice for a total) and you will see that your game will turn from pure chance (linear curve) to averages (bell curve).

The randomness of hitting and causing crits in this game could be removed entirely by changing it from 1d6 to do everything to 2d6 to do everything. Then you are talking averages and can make the table to fit.

-V

 

[emperorpenguin]

The randomness of hitting and causing crits in this game could be removed entirely by changing it from 1d6 to do everything to 2d6 to do everything. Then you are talking averages and can make the table to fit.

-V

it was 2d6 before SFOS, it slowed the game down

 

[vitalis6969]

it was 2d6 before SFOS, it slowed the game down

Regardless, I was pointing out how you get from the random luck of a single die to actual averages. How Mongoose wants to do the game for speed is another issue entirely.

-V