Random Ion Cannon comment -- it was mentioned by AOG's writeup of one race that used them frequently that ion cannons had a significant radiation spillover - they were powerful but races with low radiation tolerance, like humans, couldn't use them because they would be poisoning themselves.
Centauri beams: Yay or Nay?
- Thread starter emperorpenguin
- Start date
Pauly_D
Mongoose
emperorpenguin said:
Drazi ships were generally smaller so wouldnt be able to carry as many big weapons also they havent been able to change their weapons to foreward arc instead of boresight
but i they do have very powerful weaponry (2 Solarhawks 12 hits, 1 bulkhead no crits-34 damage 33 crew on a G'Quan
emperorpenguin said:
I too wouldn't mind losing Beams for something like this - as long as there were enough AD to overwhelm Interceptors (or just declare the Ion Cannon to have the Mini-Beam trait). I wouldn't even need Double Damage, as long as there were enough dice at high range.
Take the Primus Main Lasers: 4 AD with all the Beam Goodies, except Precise. On average against a 5+ Hull, that's around 6 hits at Double Damage - thus around 10/10 against Hull/Crew after Damage rolls, not counting crits. Potential is there, though, for 10-12 hits if you're lucky
An Ion Cannon Alternative would be to keep the same range, keep Super AP, make em "mini-Beam", but give 18-20 AD with no DD. Or maybe 15-16 AD, with twin Linked. The idea being to get around 12 Damage rolls, again yielding on average 10/10 damage. And again, higher damage if lucky, but not so much. The real luck would be in the extra number of Crit chances.
This would give less punch per hit, but more overall smackdown potential, and slightly increased chance of Crits without resorting to Precise (which doesn't fit fluff-wise). If you don't make the Ion Cannon mini-beams, then just up the AD even a tad more.
In the end, the goal should be to make a race's weapons feel both representative of the race, and distinct from other races. This would certainly give the Centauri a unique feel. Especially if they actually had a small edge somehow over Beams - as if the Centauri had used big lasers in the past, but switched over to a new weapons doctrine, thus allowing the lesser races (Earthers and Narn) to abscond with the "obsolete" technology.
Just some thoughts...
Traveller-61
Mongoose
I agree with Rorschach, the Centauri would need weapon of equal (or close) damage potential and unique feel.
I made up a spreadsheet to play around with the average weapon damage for pulse cannons and lasers when I was working on some conversion ideas. If I get time this weekend I might dig it out and try and come up with something useful.
DW
I made up a spreadsheet to play around with the average weapon damage for pulse cannons and lasers when I was working on some conversion ideas. If I get time this weekend I might dig it out and try and come up with something useful.
DW
lastbesthope
Mongoose
emperorpenguin said:
I dunno, he'd put the fear of whatever into the Uruk'hai (sp?)
:wink:
LBH
A
Anonymous
Guest
Pauly_D said:
18 basic AD with Super AP(vs Hull 5) gives 12 hits average, which without Precise give 10/10 damage on average. Thus about the same on average as a 4 AD Beam with DD. How is that "far" too many?
And I don't see lots of traits as == Extremely advanced. Its only how effective something is versus prevailing defenses and other weapons that determines how advanced it is. But you do have me wondering if they couldn't use a few new innovative traits, especially when Mongoose gets around to giving stats for the other First Ones.
One that did occur to me (and I'm sure others) is Mega-Beam: you keep rolling to hit, but the chance never goes down. If you cap a min (max?) to hit number of 3+, no matter what AP, this actually has fairly manageable odds. But (as anyone who's used Baharroth in GW's 40K can attest) there'll be times when it does absolutely nothing extra; or times when you think you'll never stop.
Of course, all this speculation is useless, as aSFoS will change everything anyways...
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Rorschach said:
I like the idea of different races having signature weaponry.
The Minbari have their nasty beams, the Vree antimatter, Drazi particle weapons, Brakiri grav guns, EA & Narn lasers & pulse and the Centauri plasma & ion weapons.
In fact seeing as so much EA & Narn weaponry is largely knocked off Centauri fare it could be that the Narn mag guns are based on Centauri ion cannons.
I believe the science behind both is similar? :? (accelerated plasma based lasers)
I'd drop the range (as it is in the RPG) to around half to two thirds. I'd drop beam (and wouldn't pick mini-beam as this would make them kill fighters) but keep Super AP, either double or triple damage depending on attack dice
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
maybe the ion cannon is better known as a plasma accelerator? :?
http://www.b5tech.com/science/weapons/ioncannon/ioncannon.html
http://www.b5tech.com/science/weapons/ioncannon/ioncannon.html
Pauly_D
Mongoose
Anonymous said:18 basic AD with Super AP(vs Hull 5) gives 12 hits average, which without Precise give 10/10 damage on average. Thus about the same on average as a 4 AD Beam with DD. How is that "far" too many?
the point i was trying to make is a more advanced race should have more traits e.g like minbari, almost all (or even possibly all) their weapons have some special traits, therefore we would expect an advanced race like the centauri to have less AD but have more Twin linkeds, AP's, Super AP's, precise, beams and even possibly mini-beams than most other races
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
frobisher said:emperorpenguin said:
Fairly unlikely given that the Mag Gun is a railgun delivering a mini nuke...
It's more a development of the Matter Cannon
How's that a beam?
I thought it fired some kind of plasma down a laser or something.... :?
emperorpenguin said:
The weapon description in B5Wars states that pretty emphatically, and I think the same occurs in the RPG Narn Fact Book. ACtA doesn't tend to detail the weapons much beyond name and behaviour so that bit of fluff probably wasn't presented.
The B5Wars original was Flash mode (which is a poor man's Raking mode in many ways, and Raking is what leads to Beam in ACtA terms in general) and it pretty much shears whichever side it hits off - giving it Beam behaviour in ACtA pretty much apes this; it's just not a "real" beam weapon and it's kinda odd in B5Wars as well.
The weapon you're thinking of is the Plasma Stream (Should be on the Mograth - don't have my ACtA handy at the mo...).
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
I don't know about it firing Nukes, but it is meant to be a MAGnetic accelerator, or Railgun. The Beam factor probably represents the big solid metal projectile tearing through the target ship, rather than exploding on contact like most weapons. Despite being a solid projectile, it can't be Intercepted simply because the slug's got vastly too much momentum to deflect, and it's far too solid to destroy.emperorpenguin said:
Wulf
It's been mentioned that, should the Centauri lose their beams, the weapon that replaces them should have some advantage over beams (Centauri being more advanced, longer in space, blah, blah, blah).
The Centarui Battle Lasers already have a massive advantage over Narn and EA beams in that they aren't limited to a Boresight fire arc. If you're looking for a "fluffy" explanation as to why the Centarui shelved beam technology, that could be it. Completely forgetting that Battle Lasers exist for the moment, perhaps the Centauri decided that the R&D necessary to support beam weapons capable of firing through a full arc just wasn't worth the expense. Instead, they focused on weapons that, though less powerful on a shot-by-shot basis, were capable of putting out massive amounts of firepower (which would get them through Interceptors) through wider fire arcs. This would certainly be backed up by the existing show footage and would give them a unique feel.
The Centarui Battle Lasers already have a massive advantage over Narn and EA beams in that they aren't limited to a Boresight fire arc. If you're looking for a "fluffy" explanation as to why the Centarui shelved beam technology, that could be it. Completely forgetting that Battle Lasers exist for the moment, perhaps the Centauri decided that the R&D necessary to support beam weapons capable of firing through a full arc just wasn't worth the expense. Instead, they focused on weapons that, though less powerful on a shot-by-shot basis, were capable of putting out massive amounts of firepower (which would get them through Interceptors) through wider fire arcs. This would certainly be backed up by the existing show footage and would give them a unique feel.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
B5freak said:
I agree with your thinking. Although I love what battle lasers can do there's a part of me wishes AOG had never invented the things, much like Matt's despair over Abbai shields! :lol:
Ah yes, the Abbai. If you get rid of Battle Lasers for the Centauri, what's to be done with the Abbai? That would leave the League's "pacifist" member with probably the most powerful weapon available to the younger races (a beam that can fire through a full arc).
As a side note to my previous post, the rational for the centauri dropping beams (assuming they're stuck with Boresight-only technology) becomes even stronger when you consider a ship's ability to function independently. As an example, the Omega is severly limited in what it can do without support from other ships. If an opponent brings more than one ship to the battle, a lone Omega's chances making full use of its beams are virtually nil. By dropping beams in favor of full-arc weaponry, a Primus would be able to function at full capacity on the battlefield, without the need for support ships. This could be why the Centauri were willing to send a lone Primus to threaten B5 and capture the Narn cruiser whereas EA never sent anything less than an Omega backed up by a couple Hyperions. Granted, the EA wanted to take the station while the Centauri only wanted that Narn cruiser, but the lone Primus was able to put out enough firepower to defend itself from fighters and get past the station's interceptors to score some pretty massive damage, all without the use of beam weapons.
As a side note to my previous post, the rational for the centauri dropping beams (assuming they're stuck with Boresight-only technology) becomes even stronger when you consider a ship's ability to function independently. As an example, the Omega is severly limited in what it can do without support from other ships. If an opponent brings more than one ship to the battle, a lone Omega's chances making full use of its beams are virtually nil. By dropping beams in favor of full-arc weaponry, a Primus would be able to function at full capacity on the battlefield, without the need for support ships. This could be why the Centauri were willing to send a lone Primus to threaten B5 and capture the Narn cruiser whereas EA never sent anything less than an Omega backed up by a couple Hyperions. Granted, the EA wanted to take the station while the Centauri only wanted that Narn cruiser, but the lone Primus was able to put out enough firepower to defend itself from fighters and get past the station's interceptors to score some pretty massive damage, all without the use of beam weapons.
Rick
Mongoose
The Centauri being centauri have probably been buying, stealing, borrowing and/or getting their (once great) hands on the pick of technology from any race they can beat up 2 times out of 3. Battle Lasers they would almost certainly have "acquired" from somewhere, just like most of their "technological advances".
The only reason they don't have e-mines is cos the Narn only developed them after they kicked the Centauri off-planet. Hmm, they came back, though, didn't they?
2261+ Vorchan variant with e-mines, interceptors and shadow (drakh) tech anyone? :twisted:
The only reason they don't have e-mines is cos the Narn only developed them after they kicked the Centauri off-planet. Hmm, they came back, though, didn't they?
2261+ Vorchan variant with e-mines, interceptors and shadow (drakh) tech anyone? :twisted:
