Beamless Centauri - Take Two

[l33tpenguin]

Using the same arguement about beamless Centauri since we never seen them in the show would be the same as arguing that Brakiri should have no weapons since we never once saw them fire....

hmm and you haven't been savaged to death over this statement? interesting......

I thought about commenting on it (as anyone who has read enough of my posts knows, I like commenting :wink: ), but the statement brought amusement to me, so I left well enough alone Sometimes its the simple things in life

 

[katadder]

Darkner - it will become a light carrier, four Sentri flights and light armament at skirmish level. Carrier 2 and no fleet carrier. It has that huge bay at the front, after all.

sounds like my amar (or the 1e amar).

dunno why people get so up about centauri having beams.
ok we didnt see them in show, but in show we only saw vorchans and primus/secundus so doesnt leave alot of scope. as was said B5 Wars produced alot of the fluff so see no problem with the few beams the centauri now have. and also as was said - the narn got their beams from here, backwards engineered.
wouldnt go upping the all round weapons on the primus, the centauri dont have alot of weapons to the flanks/rear as a general rule.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Says who? AoG? The model clearly has turrets that can bear in all directions. All can fire to the front, half to the sides and rear. Why does that mean they have "few guns" in the rear?

My Darkner revision would be like the 1st ed Amar, yes. With Centauri fighters more use and carriers more valuable in general I feel it's a viable use of the model that does away with the AoG-canon beams. If you don't agree with the anti-beam lobby that's your business, but you know the arguments for it as well as anyone here does. I believe only AoG ever said the Narn got their beam tech from the Centauri - on-screen G'Kar only states they learned how to make Centauri "weapons," while Franklin and others talk about the Centauri preferring an "explosive rather than slicing" mode for their energy weapons.

 

[katadder]

nope, says mongoose who you decided to go with
btw the Amaer may be making an appearance, just have to wait and see. for stats see my earth/centauri war.

if using on screen evidence you only have 2 ships anyway, secundus and vorchan so if you make a fleet out of them you wont have beams anyway

 

[inq101]

I believe only AoG ever said the Narn got their beam tech from the Centauri - on-screen G'Kar only states they learned how to make Centauri "weapons,"

And the Narn are well known for acquiring other races tech. They could easily have gotten it elsewhere.

I like the idea of beamless Centauri. The beam weapons they do have don't add much to the fleet style anyway.

 

[Banichi]

Using the same arguement about beamless Centauri since we never seen them in the show would be the same as arguing that Brakiri should have no weapons since we never once saw them fire....

hmm and you haven't been savaged to death over this statement? interesting......

I think we went down the road of that argument a while ago.

I really like the idea of replacing the battle laser on the oct with ballistic (oh my spelling) torpedoes. I don't think it has enough long range clout in its current form.

 

[Da Boss]

Right, what I'm looking at for some of those ships:

Darkner - it will become a light carrier, four Sentri flights and light armament at skirmish level. Carrier 2 and no fleet carrier. It has that huge bay at the front, after all.

Sulust - a Maximus writ large, with guardian array, probably plasma accelerator to give it more punch.

Morgrath - older design that keeps matter cannons and the first ship to mount the plasma stream. Who says it's alien tech? B5W fluff doesn't interest me that much, MGP has the license and they've changed enough, AoG "canon" has had its day as far as I'm concerned.

Octurion - either the plasma stream or ballistic torps up front and heavy ion cannons in every arc.

Primus - heavy ion cannons in every arc. Maybe a Tertius variant that reduces then to ion cannons and mounts a plasma stream as well.

Any thoughts?

Ok - like the Darkner /Amar light carrier

Sullust - again seems fine

Morgrath - slightly confused - you want AOG's plasma stream but not the rest - why use it at all? Why not remove it or make it a non beam weapon?

Octurion - again why use AOG's plasma stream if you want non beam? use the Torps or something else to give it LR punch.

Primus - again why have the plasma stream/ Tertius? Hvy ion cannon vs looks interesting.

Corvan -? Keep the beam or loose it

If you really want to you can have a complete Centauri fleet with only two ships with beams - the Adira and the Liaiti - both designed as anti-ISA ships and enhanced with Drakh technology? If thats your aim (a more "canon" fleet why keep the plasma stream (or at least as a beam) :?

 

[Banichi]

Just thinking about it. I wonder if mongoose left the centauri with beams in 2e so that there would be more of a difference between them and the dilgar. If you take away the centauri beams the two fleets start to look quite similar.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Just thinking about it. I wonder if mongoose left the centauri with beams in 2e so that there would be more of a difference between them and the dilgar. If you take away the centauri beams the two fleets start to look quite similar.

give that man a cookie! :wink:

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Ok - like the Darkner /Amar light carrier

Sullust - again seems fine

Morgrath - slightly confused - you want AOG's plasma stream but not the rest - why use it at all? Why not remove it or make it a non beam weapon?

Octurion - again why use AOG's plasma stream if you want non beam? use the Torps or something else to give it LR punch.

Primus - again why have the plasma stream/ Tertius? Hvy ion cannon vs looks interesting.

Corvan -? Keep the beam or loose it

If you really want to you can have a complete Centauri fleet with only two ships with beams - the Adira and the Liaiti - both designed as anti-ISA ships and enhanced with Drakh technology? If thats your aim (a more "canon" fleet why keep the plasma stream (or at least as a beam) :?

I originally wanted to keep the plasma stream for two main reasons. One, it seems to suit the Centauri, a limited-deployment plasma-based weapon with a short range. We know the Centauri use advanced plasma weaponary, so why not a beam? If it's rare, and/or out of favour with the naval establishment it wouldn't contradict on-screen evidence but would give the Centauri a beam for when they really need one. Two, I struggle to come up with a purpose for the Morgrath without it.

 

[Banichi]

Just thinking about it. I wonder if mongoose left the centauri with beams in 2e so that there would be more of a difference between them and the dilgar. If you take away the centauri beams the two fleets start to look quite similar.

give that man a cookie! :wink:

I like choc chip. :lol:

Seriously though, it's the reason I didn't get a dilgar fleet. I really liked the minies, but I already have a centauri fleet, and wanted one that I would have to use a different style of play to use.

 

[Triggy]

Just thinking about it. I wonder if mongoose left the centauri with beams in 2e so that there would be more of a difference between them and the dilgar. If you take away the centauri beams the two fleets start to look quite similar.

Also it's because there's so much in the fluff, from the original Primus designs by the show's CG people and that the Narns copied the Centauri for their beam technology, that pointed towards a number of Centauri ships running beams of some sort.

I don't dislike David's ideas, but those are important reasons why they were kept in the game.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Also it's because there's so much in the fluff, from the original Primus designs by the show's CG people and that the Narns copied the Centauri for their beam technology, that pointed towards a number of Centauri ships running beams of some sort.

I don't dislike David's ideas, but those are important reasons why they were kept in the game.

What fluff? I don't recall anything on-screen that says that, and there's enough on-screen that points the other way. What are these important reasons, Master Playtester?

 

[Da Boss]

Role for the Morgrath

how about a Planetary assault ship - a bit like the Ikorta?

or make the Plasma Stream a new weapon like..........

the Plasma Stream is a power hungry devestating cutting weapon slicing through hulls with ease. Its cascade of energy quickly overwelms defensive systems like interceptors.

Range 10, F Arc, 4 dice, Double Damage, SAP,

Plasma Streams can not be intercepted.

pretty much the same as a beam but not one :wink:

 

[Banichi]

What about giving them the mini beam trait?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

A low-level assault ship could work, the hull shape does suggest some atmospheric ability. Or, the plasma stream could become a mini-beam, help against those tedious interceptors...

 

[lastbesthope]

A low-level assault ship could work, the hull shape does suggest some atmospheric ability.

Yeah but we don't we see the Valen in LotR take off from planetside, and it's hardly aerodynamic.

LBH

 

[Lord David the Denied]

We do, indeed. Still, in game terms the only ships with the trait are aerodynamically shaped. Maybe if we ever get a Valen model it'll get the trait, too, seeing as it's on-screen canon.

 

[Triggy]

Also it's because there's so much in the fluff, from the original Primus designs by the show's CG people and that the Narns copied the Centauri for their beam technology, that pointed towards a number of Centauri ships running beams of some sort.

I don't dislike David's ideas, but those are important reasons why they were kept in the game.

What fluff? I don't recall anything on-screen that says that, and there's enough on-screen that points the other way. What are these important reasons, Master Playtester?

Look at the CG model of the Primus - there are four laser mounts (paired in each wing), confirmed as such by the design notes of the team that created the design.

As for the technology aspect, it is repeated many times that the Narn technology and in particular weaponry is reverse engineered from Centauri patterns. This fits with most of the Narn weaponry being lighter (Ion Cannon) or clumsier (Heavy Laser Cannon) than the Centauri equivalents.

 

[blackphoenix]

Yes, I believe it was in "In the Beginning" with the Earth/Minbari war. Earth tries to buy weapons from Molari but he refuses, they then speak to G'Kar and he agrees because the Minbari would just see the weapons as Centauri design.