Cargo manipulation

[Spartan159]

The deckplans for the 400 ton subsidized merchant spell out a 6 meter ceiling in the cargo hold just for the record. On the ship I am working with it's actually a bit higher than that, to allow the wiggle room the crane needs and for moving containers.

 

[phavoc]

The deckplans for the 400 ton subsidized merchant spell out a 6 meter ceiling in the cargo hold just for the record. On the ship I am working with it's actually a bit higher than that, to allow the wiggle room the crane needs and for moving containers.

Deckplans and dimensions aren't an exact science, which allows for some wiggle room. You could get away with some pretty tight tolerances if you wanted. The only problem if you call out say an additional .5m in the cargo hold, where are you going to take the rest from to maintain your 400Dtons?

 

[Spartan159]

The deckplans for the 400 ton subsidized merchant spell out a 6 meter ceiling in the cargo hold just for the record. On the ship I am working with it's actually a bit higher than that, to allow the wiggle room the crane needs and for moving containers.

Deckplans and dimensions aren't an exact science, which allows for some wiggle room. You could get away with some pretty tight tolerances if you wanted. The only problem if you call out say an additional .5m in the cargo hold, where are you going to take the rest from to maintain your 400Dtons?

You'd have to ask whoever made the original deckplans, I still have not figured that one out yet. I try not to think about it too hard, it makes my head hurt. Maybe the same dimensional pocket that magical girls pull their hammers from?

 

[rust2]

In my campaigns both the cargo holds and the cargo crates or containers adhere to the Goldilocks Principle, they are (almost) always "just right" in size and shape - 10 cargoes of 10 dtons each fit perfectly into a 100 dton cargo hold, and there is (almost) always still enough space left to handle them. Any problems with sizes and shapes only exist when I need them for a specific scenario, for example when the poor free trader captain has to find out how to transport some whale sharks alive to a remote water world colony.

 

[Spartan159]

As I'm looking at this I think it is probably broken down by what you are handling, break/bulk or containerized. I don't think individual crew members or stevedores will be affecting containerized cargo except by operating wheeled/grav forklifts, and would probably just be getting in the way. Multiple cargo doors would allow break/bulk and containerized cargo to be loaded/unloaded at the same time.

I'm thinking of a breakdown along these lines:

Break/Bulk:
Crew/Stevedore w/pallet jacks, grav or otherwise; 1 ton per 3 minute average.
Cargo bots 1 ton per 3 minutes.
Cargo Lifter exoskeleton 1 ton per 3 minutes.
Loading Belt, TL 7, 3 tons per minute. TL 12, 8 tons per minute.

Containerized:
Grappling Arm, 1 container per minute, or 1x 2 ton item per minute.
Heavy Grappling Arm, 1 container per minute, or 1x 10 ton item per minute.
Cargo Loader, aka forklift, grav or otherwise, 1 container per minute.
Cargo Crane, 1 container, or 1x 65 ton item per minute.

These are intended to be "safe" speeds, being shot at is probably a good speed inducer. Thoughts, criticisms? Other loading mechanisms?

 

[Condottiere]

Having latitude with drawing up deckplans tends to result in odd corners, where you can stick smaller stuff, including things you might be reluctant to pay duty on.

 

[Infojunky]

In my campaigns both the cargo holds and the cargo crates or containers adhere to the Goldilocks Principle, they are (almost) always "just right" in size and shape - 10 cargoes of 10 dtons each fit perfectly into a 100 dton cargo hold, and there is (almost) always still enough space left to handle them. Any problems with sizes and shapes only exist when I need them for a specific scenario, for example when the poor free trader captain has to find out how to transport some whale sharks alive to a remote water world colony.

I am glad I am not the only one who practices that.

Note there are lots of things that are shipped that require a greater volume than one would assume from the actual size of the shipping container.

 

[phavoc]

As I'm looking at this I think it is probably broken down by what you are handling, break/bulk or containerized. I don't think individual crew members or stevedores will be affecting containerized cargo except by operating wheeled/grav forklifts, and would probably just be getting in the way. Multiple cargo doors would allow break/bulk and containerized cargo to be loaded/unloaded at the same time.

I'm thinking of a breakdown along these lines:

Break/Bulk:
Crew/Stevedore w/pallet jacks, grav or otherwise; 1 ton per 3 minute average.
Cargo bots 1 ton per 3 minutes.
Cargo Lifter exoskeleton 1 ton per 3 minutes.
Loading Belt, TL 7, 3 tons per minute. TL 12, 8 tons per minute.

Containerized:
Grappling Arm, 1 container per minute, or 1x 2 ton item per minute.
Heavy Grappling Arm, 1 container per minute, or 1x 10 ton item per minute.
Cargo Loader, aka forklift, grav or otherwise, 1 container per minute.
Cargo Crane, 1 container, or 1x 65 ton item per minute.

These are intended to be "safe" speeds, being shot at is probably a good speed inducer. Thoughts, criticisms? Other loading mechanisms?

Your loading belt at TL7 is going to be about at max efficiency. There's not much change as TL changes - it's still a belt, it still has a maximum operating speed or else your loads start flying off of it. Even the automation required to automatically route cargo to its destination (we have that today at TL8) won't be helped at TL12.

Grav versions of the standard wheeled version do have the possibility of slightly higher rates because they won't be limited to two dimensions. But much of that depends on the specific unloading circumstances, and how far they need to travel to pick up/drop off. Plus if your ship has a loading ramp or not - most should/will, but grav vehicles would be able to ignore the need for one (plus they could do things like loading a ship that had upper hull cargo access whereas a wheeled vehicle would not be able to do so.

Your cargo crane container speed matches what high-speed cranes can do today. But be careful about too widely applying that sort of loading speed to non container items. Cargo cranes are specifically built and their lifting mechanisms to pick up and move the container in a safe and stable way. That's not the case with just a regular object, especially for equipment that isn't designed for it in the first place.

When I was doing my container stuff I added in a portable one-man operation grav lifter that attached to the top of a container, much like a crane would, but instead of cables it used an anti-grav generator that's really just a souped-up personal grav belt. Extendable claws gripped the container at each end to provide stability, and when not in use it would collapse down a great deal. The purpose was for one person to be able to deliver containers from a transporter (also envisioned a grav truck that could carry 4 containers, stacked 2x2, side by side), and stack/load the containers as needed.

I always saw this as an exercise in fun, as well as fleshing out the mundane process. It's been my opinion that little things like this allow players or refs to then use this information for adventures. You never know when a patron is going to ask you to steal a container full of slave girls from a hidden depot and smuggle it back to the starport before the local authorities or the slavers find out it's missing. Or something like that.

 

[Spartan159]

The loading belt at TL 12 "uses high-powered magnets to propel cargo containers, increasing the work output to that of 25 crewmen", /shrug . I would say gravitics and/or inertial dampening was involved. It sounds to me like there is no longer a "moving belt" to it. I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to wrap my head around this and come up with a reasonable sounding rule of thumb I can house rule. What if the TL 7 speed was 2 tons/minute and the TL 12 speed was 6 tons/minute?

 

[phavoc]

The loading belt at TL 12 "uses high-powered magnets to propel cargo containers, increasing the work output to that of 25 crewmen", /shrug . I would say gravitics and/or inertial dampening was involved. It sounds to me like there is no longer a "moving belt" to it. I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to wrap my head around this and come up with a reasonable sounding rule of thumb I can house rule. What if the TL 7 speed was 2 tons/minute and the TL 12 speed was 6 tons/minute?

If you added gravitics to the belt to 'lock' the object down, you could certainly increase the rate. But it comes down to a matter of cost at some point. Gravitics aren't cheap (and tractor/presser beams don't exist in MGT), and your loading/unloading equipment isn't going to be in operation at all times. It makes sense, to me at least, to have grav lifters to replace wheeled loaders at some point. But I'd probably draw the line at making a gravitic conveyor belt.

Doubling the speed at TL12 is a reasonable rule of thumb that is a defendable as anything else I suppose. The future is bigger and brighter and obviously faster!

 

[Infojunky]

(and tractor/presser beams don't exist in MGT

As a ship range weapons they haven't been mentioned, but as part of an industrial system they have, in that both artificial gravity and inertial compensation are.

For the small cargo model i.e. Pallets and ULDs in a shirtsleeve environment, I assume that cargo areas have roller floors like a lot of cargo aircraft plus installed pallet elevators vertical between deck movement.

 

[-Daniel-]

Not 100% the same, but when I think of the cargo bay of my ships I tend to think of shots like this one of the inside of a Galaxy Cargo Plane. Designed for moving cargo pods and pallets with lots of anchor points.

 

[Condottiere]

I can't recall at the moment any specific descriptions.

However, magnetic levitation could be an alternative to grav lifters.

 

[Infojunky]

However, magnetic levitation could be an alternative to grav lifters.

Magnetic maniplulation is a general no-no in cargo shifting operations... Too large a chance of damaging sensitive cargos...

 

[phavoc]

(and tractor/presser beams don't exist in MGT

As a ship range weapons they haven't been mentioned, but as part of an industrial system they have, in that both artificial gravity and inertial compensation are.

For the small cargo model i.e. Pallets and ULDs in a shirtsleeve environment, I assume that cargo areas have roller floors like a lot of cargo aircraft plus installed pallet elevators vertical between deck movement.

Low-tech solutions like rollers in the floor work great any tech level because they are simple mechanical devices that rarely fail.

Perhaps tractor/pressor beams exist, Artificial gravity or intertial compensators don't necessarily translate into working tech. MGT has some pretty large gaps in their explanations of things, where you can argue either way about something.

 

[-Daniel-]

MGT has some pretty large gaps in their explanations of things, where you can argue either way about something.

Yep, I find I just accept some things, from MGT or Traveller in general, at face value or I could go crazy arguing with myself. :lol:

I also find that in some cases, lower tech solutions work best. Granted they are implemented better as higher tech becomes available, but they still work. My favorite example is the wheel. Works just fine today but it is a very old idea. Just the wheels today are built by better tech, are better honed so to say.

 

[AndrewW]

Perhaps tractor/pressor beams exist, Artificial gravity or intertial compensators don't necessarily translate into working tech.

The new High Guard covers tractor beams in the High Technology section.

 

[Condottiere]

I bet there's a tendency towards no moving parts.

 

[phavoc]

Perhaps tractor/pressor beams exist, Artificial gravity or intertial compensators don't necessarily translate into working tech.

The new High Guard covers tractor beams in the High Technology section.

Slaps AndrewW with a trout...

 

[-Daniel-]

Perhaps tractor/pressor beams exist, Artificial gravity or intertial compensators don't necessarily translate into working tech.

The new High Guard covers tractor beams in the High Technology section.

Slaps AndrewW with a trout...

:lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s