Campaign question

[Burger]

How can you possibly think what to use and what to save, if you don't know the upcoming battles?

"I have an Adira here, should I field it in this 7pt Battle game, or wait just in case the next game is 5pt War?"

Is that thinking or guessing? I call it guessing. There is no way to "figure it out", you just have to make your guess and hope the next battle isn't 5pt War. If you know the next battle is 5pt War, you can think whether to use your Adira now or save it. If you don't know the next battle, you have to guess.

 

[katadder]

thinking is by the amount of games you have left. you have to consider how many other battles you have left and leave some ships for it. or sometimes not.
if your 1st game is a 5pt war do you use your whole campaign fleet and lose the other 2 battles or use some and save some, or give up this battle. this is where thought is involved. theres no guessing. you have to think how many games you have and consider leaving enough resources for those games.
i am not going to guess that i will get a 4pt raid on my 2nd game and a 3 point war for my final one. thats guessing.
but knowing you have more than one game means you have to think about ur fleet for the 1st game, for the game you have all the info for, knowing that you have 2 more games to go.

 

[Burger]

How can you consider leaving resources for future games, if you don't know how many resources are required for those games? Thats right, you have to guess! You haven't answered my question...

"I have an Adira here, should I field it in this 7pt Battle game, or wait just in case the next game is 5pt War?"

Is that thinking or guessing?

 

[katadder]

its called forethought. you have 2 games. you have to leave a certain amount of resources to cover those 2 games.
its like in an actual war - you are going to attack, but you dont know if the enemy will attack you so you have to think how much force you need to carry out the attack and how much to keep for defense. you dont guess there, but in a way it is a guess, but you still have to think about it.

so in the 1st game you have to think how much force can i use to successfully win, whilst also leaveing enough resources to help defend or attack in other missions.

thats what part of the campaign system is about. if you use too much force for your 1st game, yes you may win. but then you will not be left with enough to defend later on.

its not guessing, and its not thinking as you would put it, but it does require thought.

 

[Burger]

but in a way it is a guess, but you still have to think about it

So you admit it is a guess, with some thinking involved. That is, a considered guess.
But, if you know all of your battles beforehand, there is no guessing. Only thinking. You know how much force will be required to defend and how much to attack, so you can think which ships to allocate to each battle. No guessing whatsoever, of any kind.

 

[katadder]

an no tactics for it, you cant be surprised.
gets rid of the considering.
i didnt say its a guess, you have to consider what you need to win, whilst leaving enough for future games. its part of the tactics of campaigns, otherwise there is no tactics in campaigns and you may as well just play 1 off games.

 

[tschuma]

I am the one that Admiral Phlop is talking about. I was planning on fighting because I could us the RR point from the Trade Route by iontercepting the Shadow player.

I know the Shadow player has 3 hunters, and the rest as Scouts.

I am taking the following:

1 - Bin'Tak
1 - G'Quan
2 - G'Lan
1 - Var'Nic
4- Ka'Tan's

Should I fight or run?

Tom

 

[Burger]

you have to consider what you need to win, whilst leaving enough for future games.

How do you know what is "enough" for future games, if you don't know the level or FAPs?

 

[katadder]

thats part of the point, you dont, but you hav to leave what you think/hope will be enough.
same as a military commander in the field in the example I gave. have to attack with sufficent force whilst leaving enough in defense.
if you know exactly what is going to happen each turn takes some of the edge and excitement out of it.
suddenly you find you left enough to cover a 5pt raid but they roll a 5pt war. or perhaps you only took 5 of your battle points in ur 7pt battle, didnt win (maybe would have with more ships) and find you only end up witha 4pt skirmish for later games so could have had plenty. its all part of the fun IMO. if you know exactly whats going on then its less fun, and really doesnt require much thought.

 

[Burger]

thats part of the point, you dont, but you hav to leave what you think/hope will be enough.

That is called guessing. Not thinking. How can you possibly think how much you need, when you don't know the level or FAPs required? You can't. You can only guess.

suddenly you find you left enough to cover a 5pt raid but they roll a 5pt war. or perhaps you only took 5 of your battle points in ur 7pt battle, didnt win (maybe would have with more ships) and find you only end up witha 4pt skirmish for later games so could have had plenty.

In other words, you guessed incorrectly.

 

[katadder]

its considered forthought - you know how many games you have to cover. its not guessing. its using the intelligence you do have about the number of fights. and splitting your fleet correctly. you also know the size of the 1st fight so that also helps with your choices.

if you cant get your head around this its no wonder you guys have to know all the PLs and scenarios up front, you would have no ships left for future games.

 

[Burger]

its using the intelligence you do have about the number of fights. and splitting your fleet correctly. you also know the size of the 1st fight so that also helps with your choices.

It helps your guess, yes. But still how can you possibly know what to take and what to leave, when you don't know the size of the other battles?

if you cant get your head around this its no wonder you guys have to know all the PLs and scenarios up front, you would have no ships left for future games.

I can get my head around it, it is just a different way of doing it. Your way requires more considered thinking based on a few known facts and some unknowns (also called "guessing"). Our way requires more considered choices based on known facts (also called "thinking").

I'm signing off this thread now - cya later :lol:

 

[tneva82]

That is called guessing. Not thinking. How can you possibly think how much you need, when you don't know the level or FAPs required? You can't. You can only guess..

But what thinking there is if you always know everything? It's not. It's trivial mathematical exercise. Nothing more. Certainly not what real military commanders would be doing...

 

[Sulfurdown]

Predetermining all engagements for a given turn allows for better tactical analysis. First rule of War - Know what you're engaging.

Leaving engagements vague until they are active, however, would seem to add more realism. Commanders usually don't have the up coming war planned out, they have a general flow of tactics planned to engage the enemy but they don't KNOW that the battle today is possibly against the opponent's main force while the battle tomorrow will be limited to the skirmishes.

Personally - I don't like the nature of the random scenario Priority Level. It's too artificial in what can or cannot be fielded. You might end up with a 3 pt Patrol Planetary Assault against the opponent's last world when they still have 18 battle points of fleet withdrawn for defense and you've got 54 battle points of fleet waiting to attack. It's like sending out you best soldier to duel their best soldier, winner take all. And the player stops being the commander so much as chance forcing the issue.

 

[katadder]

no considering when you know all the facts. you just choose the fleets you need.

and finally you agree my way is more considered thinking using the facts at your disposal. yes you cant get as near to the actual results cos you dont have all the facts but you have enough to make decisions.

 

[katadder]

should try it my way burger, does add some fun to the campaign and is also how i read it in the book.

 

[Na-Po]

Just quoting the book :

"The player who won the initiative Phase selects any one Strategic Target that he does not currently posses. If this target belongs to another player, he will move to the next phase, fighting a battle with that player's fleet.
...
If the attacking player is not challenged in this way, he gains the Strategic Target automatically, without a fight! Once it has been decided what THE player who won the Initiative is doing, the next player in Initiative Order chooses a Strategic Target..."

We just saw that if you attack you go to the next step, battle. And once everyone knows what you're doing (taking neutral ST without a fight or battling for a pre-occupied ST) the next player chooses what he is doing.

IMO it means you play one player at a time so have to "guess" or estimate what fight(s) you might have during the turn.
Of course it can be houseruled

 

[Greg Smith]

Just quoting the book :

"The player who won the initiative Phase selects any one Strategic Target that he does not currently posses. If this target belongs to another player, he will move to the next phase, fighting a battle with that player's fleet.
...

That does contradict the passage I quoted earlier and the turn sequence.

So we would both be right.

 

[EvilBob]

In our campaign we don't know what PL and FAP we are playing until the game itself. I like this as it lends itself to a feel more like the series, you can have the Shadow hunter attacking a 3 pt Patrol fleet.

At the moment in our campaign I have just had a 5 pt war (most of my fleet) battle against the Dilgar and a 5 pt Raid against the Shadow. Now I have to face an attack from an EA player and a Minbari player. I have about 3 points of raid left so in all likelihood I would have to conceed at least one of the games. I think that adds to the fun and can stop one player dominating the game too quickly.

As luck would have it though the EA player can't attack due to family commitments so I might have a chance against the Minbari (if we roll low).

 

[tneva82]

As luck would have it though the EA player can't attack due to family commitments so I might have a chance against the Minbari (if we roll low).

Hmmm...Wonder what in-game reasoning would be :lol:

Errors in communication between EA fleet and HQ?-)