Campaign on Vassal

[prelude_to_war]

I voted against the sharing of ships. Doesn't feel right. Not to mention certain lists are built to use that as a strength (ISA, League) while others it's a weakness (Minbari at low PLs). Enabling everyone to do it is borderline cheesey.

Also, those whose lists are weaker due to several losses have extra resources to draw on due to sharing. Cheddar.

In the big picture, game balance could be thrown out of whack. Consider a Minbari player being lent a number of Vaarl scouts. The cheapest and best scout in the game, +1 CQ and only patrol (!). Typically Minbari would only be limited to raid scout choices but now they get more, which are much better and far cheaper. More to spend at higher PLs for the Minbari-->loss of balance. Redirect city; I don't think the Minbari need to be improved even more.

Or what a about a Dilgar player being lent EA Sags, Apollos, Primus or a Sharlin? A notoriously nasty short ranged race given access to heavy hitting 30" weaponry?

Shadows and Vorlons lending ships to eachother? How wierd is that? Dogs and Cats, living together - MASS HYSTERIA!!

Consider other games, it'd be like sharing IPC money in Axis & Allies, or lending a High Elf bolt thrower to a Skaven Army. Shouldn't happen. Like any other game we should be forced to work with the limitations set forth by the rules, learning to work with the inherent strengths and weaknesses of your race. Otherwise it becomes 'rent-to-win' versus 'maximize your limited resources better than the other guy'.

End rant.

 

[waldronbob350]

HOW ABOUT A SMALL LIMIT FOR EXAMPLE JUST 10 % THAT WOULD STILL HAVE THE FUN BUT 10% IS NOT A LOT OR SOMETHING LIKE NO MORE THEN 1 POINT OF THE PL.

HOPFULLY EVERY ONE COULD BE HAPPY WITH SOME THING LIKE THAT

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I don't have a problem with sharing ships, obviously, and why should be obvious. It comes with its own set of drawbacks. If I lent a ship to my ally (as I did) I can't then use it myself. It's had its turn so isn't available in my game(s) for the turn. Also, if the allied player does badly and I lose the ship, it's gone for good. So I have to be careful of what I lend and who I lend it to.

If any of you don't want to use that facility, no one's forcing you to. If we can't lend ships between allied players there's basically no point having alliances. We all have access to the targets and who controls them, so there's no real sharing of intelligence. Aside from plotting some sort of double-whammy strikes alliances become meaningless.

Nonody objected to having alliances in the campaign, even unlikely pairings. Alliances of convenience happen in war. Why not here?

As for my luck, yes I do have bad luck rolling dice. In most games I play I generally roll below average most of the time. Katadder rolls above average most of the time, by his own admission. Like he said, there was no fleet selection I could have brought that would have magically worked against ISA, and combined with my bad rolls and his (very) good ones, I was pretty well doomed.

I didn't choose a bad fleet against the Narn, I used a pretty standard set-up, but rolled badly for most of the game. Bad rolls cost me that game more than any tactical mistakes I might have made. If anyone here chooses to assume I'm lying to cover up my own failures, that's up to them, and I don't care what they think. That's the way it happened.

 

[katadder]

i agree with prelude, the minbari would have done far less well without the dargan, and would have been only on equal terms after the drakh took a point off the LONAW. the centauri are renowned for havingproblems to their rear and lack of fighters, having 2 sharlins covers both those problems. also like prelude says, as you start to lose ships you should be getting weaker, the centauri should be outnumbered in their next battle, it should be evey one of their ships but instead its not and they are not. you can combine the strengths of many races together. imagine a narn/centauri/minbari alliance in a war game - the narn have the best skirmish ships, the centauri at raid and the minbari have the best warships. you have just covered everyones weaknesses and would be one hell of a hard force to beat. me lending whitestars out to anyone gives them huge manouvreability bonuses. the weakness of my fleet is i only have raid choices and by the fleet list can spend one point on allies. if everyone is getting 1 point or more on allies why bother with the ISA?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Because that's the race you want to play? Because you don't have to ally with other players who might not join you to get your "allied" units? Because you're a corrupt, alien-loving human who beds down with a human-Minbari hybrid?

Take your pick.

 

[katadder]

but losing games should make you weaker, not cover your deficiencies with other peoples ships.

 

[waldronbob350]

COME ON PEEPS this is getting to personal its getting to the point that i dont wont to figth because personal battles end up being crap ones and just a wast of time.

look ISA you beat centauri last turn luck or not what eva you won thats it.
i won the league jay did not mind the centauri helping he even sad its more fun no problems there,

as for the next game ISA i can see you dont like the idea that im giving centauri 3 sherlins well im not now . so you got the PL changed you have not got to face sherlins so we can all kiss and make up :lol:

 

[JayRaider]

Gentlemen this game/campaign is for fun and practice.
:evil:

 

[Lord David the Denied]

My fleet is weaker after the losses I've sustained. If I'd taken the field with three of Bob's Sharlins and done badly I might have scraped through but he'd have been done for. The risk is the same, our alliance would lose a player.

As it stands now, the battle won't happen, neither of us loses anything and you get to be even more arrogant for winning without a battle. Stop throwing the dummy out.

 

[katadder]

the batle wont happen? why? you can still put out the same fleet much as i dont like you using all his sharlins.
i dont have a problem playing games, am not arrogant, but i do have a problem with people covering their own races weaknesses under the facade of an alliance. the only person i have seen throwing their dummy out is yourself LDTD over your "lack of luck" in 2 games so far. perhaps you should look at how you choose a fleet and how you play instead of just blaming the dice.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

You saw the rolls the same as I did. Perhaps you should stop implying you're better than me, grow up and stop acting like a prick.

 

[JayRaider]

I'm very disappointed with all of you, for letting this degenerate.

 

[Triggy]

I'm very disappointed with all of you, for letting this degenerate.

Agreed, I'd be happy if you could just play the game and if you can't get along then just keep quiet on the issue. There's no need to sour the mood by bickering.

After all, aren't we here to play games of A Call to Arms and enjoy ourselves?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

And so we were, until someone starting acting superior, like their jammy dice rolling makes them special...

 

[prelude_to_war]

My intention wasn't to ingite this flame war, but to revisit the idea of lending ships. If we're not going to play nice, what's the point?

I think the GM needs to step in here and calm the restless natives.

 

[LaranosTZ]

Right, if anyone wants to play a pickup game tomorrow (monday) I can be around. PM with a time, I'm easier to reach at an arranged time then I am over IM I'm afraid.

 

[waldronbob350]

hold on are you saying the narn are throwing in the towl if so why

 

[katadder]

i would like to apologise to everyone else, in my belieif i never acted arrogantly, i bought up the topic of not lending ships and for some reason LDTD starts thinking i am arrogant and even starts with the name calling, dont know why but thats his choice. to everyone else my apologies tho, to LDTD grow up.

 

[waldronbob350]

ur still figthing and name calling all stop

 

[katadder]

see wheres the name calling in my thread? the only person throughout this whole thread who has resorted to name calling is LDTD when he starting calling me a prick, hence the grow up. i have not name called anyone at any time.