British light infantry

[hegemon]

Mr Evil,

When I was in the Arty, whenever we assumed the infantry role, our section was equipped with, 2 LSW, one per fireteam, 6 L85A2's, Smoke Grens and tonnes of ammo, about 6 mags and a box per man, extended firefight!!, but anyway this seems to be somewhat similar to the EFTF Brit squad. I also beleive most basic training Regt's have the same setup.

 

[emperorpenguin]

When I was in the Arty, whenever we assumed the infantry role, our section was equipped with, 2 LSW, one per fireteam, 6 L85A2's, Smoke Grens and tonnes of ammo, about 6 mags and a box per man, extended firefight!!, but anyway this seems to be somewhat similar to the EFTF Brit squad. .

but there are no LSWs in the EFTF section

 

[Mr Evil]

Mr Evil,

When I was in the Arty, whenever we assumed the infantry role, our section was equipped with, 2 LSW, one per fireteam, 6 L85A2's, Smoke Grens and tonnes of ammo, about 6 mags and a box per man, extended firefight!!, but anyway this seems to be somewhat similar to the EFTF Brit squad. I also beleive most basic training Regt's have the same setup.

the minimi is very different to the L85A2 lsw though, but like you said that was in an infantry role, in last year things within the british army have changed or are changing, the new osprey in the standard kit along side the webbing is just a small example of that, the LSW as your aware has the same rate of fire and same ammo as the combat (urban) SA80A2 but the advantage of the LSW is the better build, the barrel can empty pretty much all the mags you have on you with no barrel overheat, so range and accuracy stay costant and maintained, mean while the old standard SA80A2 is slowly being moved to other areas of the forces as the delivery and taining on the LSW exspands.

by 2015 the LSW will be very very common in the brit squad id say, unless of course they decide to opt for a different rifle !!! problem with the standard SA80A2 is that it is darn heavy compared to many other infantry rifles out there, so may as well go a bit hevier and carry a superior weapon the the enemy.

not saying this as gosspal, so please dont get me wrong, but it seem the way from what friends are saying and what im seeing on the news to magazine and newspaper pics and reports is already well underway.

im def no exspert, but from my little research i cant find any squads that these may have used as a basis bar the usmc !!

 

[Mr Evil]

if i was to do the rules id have it as they are but add a GPMG (3D6+1) (if redied causes double supression) to the squad and allow all SA80A2s to drop thier bipods (ready) and fire 2D6 at 30" to represent the LSW in action while give the grenade launchers to the 2 section leaders, but not allow them to drop bipods, would mean say a box of GPMG figs to allow us to upgrade our squads to represent a true infantry fighting section, we would only need 4 (1 per squad in a platoon) and box them with some missile guys as well to represent other unit upgrades.

just an idea

 

[emperorpenguin]

to the L85A2 lsw though,

it's the L86A2 LSW

mean while the old standard SA80A2 is slowly being moved to other areas of the forces as the delivery and taining on the LSW exspands.

the plan is for every fire team to have a Minimi for suppression, an LSW for longe range and two L85s (one with UGL)

by 2015 the LSW will be very very common in the brit squad id say, unless of course they decide to opt for a different rifle !!!

There are currently two LSWs per section, the SA80 weapons are scheduled to be replaced in 2015, they'll probably be behind schedule as always!
One possible replacement? Would we go back to using Belgian guns?

 

[emperorpenguin]

and allow all SA80A2s to drop thier bipods (ready) and fire 2D6 at 30" to represent the LSW in action
just an idea

I sent in my idea for the LSW to S&P earlier today, fingers crossed we may get to use them

 

[Mr Evil]

light infantry tend to field 3 LSW and one GL 2 MINIMI and a GPMG

check out this months Combat magazine, they use the normal SA80A2 for urban engagments.


evan so 2 LSW's in the squad would be a god send and feel right.

 

[emperorpenguin]

light infantry tend to field 3 LSW and one GL 2 MINIMI and a GPMG

check out this months Combat magazine, they use the normal SA80A2 for urban engagments.


evan so 2 LSW's in the squad would be a god send and feel right.

I know Evil, I told you i bought it after you told us about it! :lol:

 

[CorranP90]

for starters sa80a2 is heavier but its also the best rifle in the world as due to its new upgrade(thx to the germans at H&K) it now has the least stopages(jams) of any rifle expecially in freezin conditions an is twice as reliable as the m16a2 an its been around for 6 years so not really old standard rifle lol. for sustained fire for the sa80 well m8 during his last exercise in training with the old sa80a1 they set up a ambush firing 5 mags in 3mins no over heat or anythin apart from dont touch the barrel after wards for atleast 5 min or ouchy :roll: lsw are not replacing sa80a2s as the lsw is a support weapon an its capable of firing thousands of rounds with out over heatin to much, its only real advantage is range and sustained fire more accurate due to bipod thats it. ugls are not bein issued to evry sa80 just to the fire teams grenadiers accordin to m8 in infantry who jus got back from iraq. standard layout for a section in iraq is 2 sa80s usually for the section leaders as they are meant to be givin orders an keepin an eye on the section not putin down rounds at the enemy although usually the ncos make sure they get the ugls :wink: 2 sa80s with ugls for designated grenadiers 2 lsws for the marksmen an 2 minimes for suppression although in normal circumstances usually only 1 minime an 1 gpmg. usually gurkhas carry more gpmgs an minimes as in the falklands they had the firepower of 2 sections for every1 section lol

 

[Mr Evil]

5 mags in 3 mins is only 150 shots i think.

shame due to bulpup design you cant fit drum magazines to the LSW lol

 

[hegemon]

but there are no LSWs in the EFTF section

as i said somewhat familiar.
and my knowledge is going back to 2002-2005, and we hadnt even known minime's were going to be issued.

And can i just say i only just found out my battery disbanded last year, long live the memory of 43, hurrah.

 

[CorranP90]

it was just an example seen as u said sa80 can only fire 2 mags then needs to cool down which is incorrect as they have been battle proven to last for hours on end firing through mag after mag an not needin to cool down. only weapons that need to do that are the machine guns when suppressing firing 100s an 100s of rounds on full auto an the barrels start to glow an eventually turn white as they get so hot which is why most modern machine guns have quick barrel change ability so while firing 1 barrel is coolin down while the other is shooting then jus swap over but thats when firin thousands of rounds. i was tryin to make the point that lsws are not replacing sa80s as lsw is best suited to long range an sa80 for CQB and there is no dif in quality concernin durability. if anythin lsws are very slighlty less reliable an more prone to jams

 

[Mr Evil]

true, but LSW is becoming standard equipment now, an as you rightly said each man has the option to be issued with a standard SA80 for CQB.

we realy should start giving out guns a decent name dont ya think, maybe puppys and growlers ?

 

[CorranP90]

lsws have been in service since introduction of sa80 back in 85-88 as it replaced the bren guns from the 30's. army was debating the use of sa80s to be brought forward by couple years to be used in falklands but army thankfully though it best to stay with current issue stens,brens,slrs an gpmgs rather than send troops into war with unfamiliar weapons an tactics. i tend to call them enfields or jus 80s as its easier to say than random letters an numbers an ofcourse gimpy for the gpmg

 

[emperorpenguin]

and my knowledge is going back to 2002-2005, and we hadnt even known minime's were going to be issued..

really? my army buddies first told me about the minimi back in 2003

 

[Rick]

Erm, correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the gimpy due to be retired? Also wasn't the Milan due to be replaced by the Trigat? and Javelin by Starstreak?

Anybody know if the sniper teams are being retained at company level in the light infantry/para/airmobile units?

 

[CorranP90]

javelin is replacing milan an gpmg is goin out of use for many years yet as its such a good section level machine gun an why get rid of somethin has no faults an all other guns that its compared to its either better than or just as good as. starstreak as far as i know is bein used along side the milan/javelin in the man operated an the mounted version on the striker tank just like US use javelin an TOW. also N-law is replacing the 94mm law for use agaisnt light armoured vehicles

 

[hegemon]

and Javelin by Starstreak?

starstreak as far as i know is bein used along side the milan/javelin in the man operated an the mounted version on the striker tank just like US use javelin an TOW

Speaking as a trained CAD gunner, starstreak i might add, it replaced javelin in '97, Thales is a nice company to work alongside by the way, but anyway starstreak comes in three forms, SP where its mounted on the Alvis Stormer, 8 in the tubes with a further 12 in storage inside, LML which is a position emplacement, 3 tubes and how ever many can be fitted in a Pinz, and the single tube shoulder mounted which is used while the LML is being set-up.

furthernore the Javelin will not replace the NLaw as it is strictly a AA weapon, what most people tend to forget is the US have their own javelin which is AT, but they are still different weapons.

 

[Jellicoe]

Here's the thing, it depends when and what units you are looking at. This things took/take time. Units heading out on deployment tend to get priority. As has been stated the LSW was not up to the role of sustained fire light support weapons hence the Minime's were introduced. Having talked to a couple of mates in various units there is no single policy on LSWs it seems, some units use them, some don't, generally they go back to the armouries.

It is not a universal given that the LSW will be in larger scale use in 10-15 years time. There were never enough LSWs to go around in the first place. There certainly aren't enough weapons around for soldiers to have a universal "choice" of what they want. It will be how it always is, unit preference and what is available to a given battalion for a given deployment. Mention has been made of certain units having greater firepower and that will continue as such. Combat in Afghanistan at the moment might require more longer range hitting power while Iraq is a bit different. If the mission requirement in 10 years was for more LSWs then more would be obtained. Everything official to date tends towards a standard establishment of 1-2 per section as an ancillary.

In gaming terms the LSW is not radically different. Just slightly more range. Same ammo, same firing and with the option of using a ready action for slight more accurate fire like the Minimi. To the best of my knowledge, and I standard to be corrected, the British army is a little unique in have this intermediate role weapon system.

But still a model would be nice

 

[captainsmirk]

furthernore the Javelin will not replace the NLaw as it is strictly a AA weapon, what most people tend to forget is the US have their own javelin which is AT, but they are still different weapons.

No one mentioned the Javelin SAM replacing the NLaw...

The NLaw is only just going to replace the present Law's why would anyone think they were going to replace a weapon which isn't in service yet with an much older weapon intended for a different role.

The Javelin mentioned was the American one which has been touted as a replacement for the Milan.


Nick