Billion Credit Squadron II
- Thread starter locarno24
- Start date
This post is directed to all the players involved as well as Locarno.
Is there any chance of you folks posting write-ups of the ships involved in this exercise? It doesn't matter so much whether it's now or after the tournament is over; I'm curious to see what everyone has come up with and, maybe, swiping some ideas for my own games. Possibly some commentary on design philosophy and suggestions for use (a tactical workup for commanders who go "by the book") could also be interesting and help provide some insights for those of us who are following along. It might also help boost the turnout for future tournaments of this sort, since I'm sure there are others besides myself whose main bar to entry was a certain amount of uncertainty about how to proceed.
Is there any chance of you folks posting write-ups of the ships involved in this exercise? It doesn't matter so much whether it's now or after the tournament is over; I'm curious to see what everyone has come up with and, maybe, swiping some ideas for my own games. Possibly some commentary on design philosophy and suggestions for use (a tactical workup for commanders who go "by the book") could also be interesting and help provide some insights for those of us who are following along. It might also help boost the turnout for future tournaments of this sort, since I'm sure there are others besides myself whose main bar to entry was a certain amount of uncertainty about how to proceed.
dalamar981
Mongoose
locarno24 said:
round 2 coming anytime soon?
I want to thank you guys for posting this battle. It helps me understand the combat rules a bit better.
I can definitely see where redundant backup systems are going to be a must, like sensors, small M-drive, reinforced hull/structure.
I'm still confused about the radiation shielding though.
I can definitely see where redundant backup systems are going to be a must, like sensors, small M-drive, reinforced hull/structure.
I'm still confused about the radiation shielding though.
Just to cut in here...
We are actively looking for someone to write a Trillion Credit Squadron book for us. If you fancy a crack at it and have lots of good ideas, drop me a line at msprange@mongoosepublishing.com
We are actively looking for someone to write a Trillion Credit Squadron book for us. If you fancy a crack at it and have lots of good ideas, drop me a line at msprange@mongoosepublishing.com
msprange said:
Very cool. One thing I would strongly suggest is that whoever takes a shot at this seriously consider adding a few intermediate levels. As we've seen here, the billion-credit level will probably work out to something on the order of a kiloton squadron - one ship to probably not more than about eight very small ships. A trillion-credit "squadron", however, is probably going to involve several battleship-scale ships, plus several more smaller ships - an order of battle which could reasonably include thirty to forty main combatants on each side. (This is why I put "squadron" in quotes; this is more properly a task force or more.) And if a designer used ships the size we've seen here exclusively, that TO would run to more than a thousand ships.
I'd like to see at least two intermediate levels, and preferably a few more. 1BCr - 10 BCr - 100BCr - 1TCr is reasonable, but still a bit granular. I'd also like to see some system for offsetting the capabilities of each side - say, allowing one side a higher budget in return for the other side getting access to higher technology, or similar adjustments. Such balancing is beyond my design abilities, though, so I'm hoping someone with a better grasp of the system will take a crack at it.
Agreed. It's something I'd love to try writing, or love to support the writing of.
However the paranoid in my head is pointing out I've never written anything for an RPG before, and the Traveller Trillion Credit Squadron is sufficiently iconic that someone screwing it up would probably be hunted down and beaten senseless...not least by me.
Which would make hiding difficult to say the least.
Indeed.
The other thing would be including a degree of 'off-screen' resolution - if I've spent 1 TCr on ships, with anything from 100 to 1000 ships depending on size, you have a truly ridiculous fighting force at your disposal.
The original Trillion Credit Squadron included 'statistical combat resolution' but that's not much more than what is now included in the Barrage rules.
What you really need is some subordinate NPCs in your fleet - such that you can say 'whilst I take some cruisers over here, Commodore Jeff and a dozen gunned-up S-Types will jump to this system and play merry hell with the supply lines".
Resolution can be done in much the same way as the ticket resolution in Mercenary - a few skill checks which result in casualties or damage to/loss of/capture of a proportion of the ships you send.
Equally, really, really big fights can be modelled the same way - the 'main engagement' with the two player units, and several supporting 'background engagements' again resolved by a few die rolls.
Otherwise you can have quite a lot of thousands of structure points worth of ships in a single engagement - the rules set ceases to be fun at this point and becomes a case of rolling dice at something for hours until it falls over!
Thing is, if you want to modify the price level, you can - describing those four levels is enough - it only really needs to be in the book if it affects the game rules or campaign rules.
So 1BCr rules will be different from 1TCr rules, because a 1TCr fleet comprises the entire navy and hence recruitment/construction during the campaign will be pushing the entire industrial capacity of a small empire, whilst at 1BCr level this can be more or less ignored - enough yard capacity can be found to allow you to build whatever you can afford.
Cost-to-tech balances already exist - for the most part - in terms of advanced and primitive spacecraft. With &*?!! particle beams being so low-tech the one classic problem of literally not being able to hurt an enemy goes away, so it's not a problem.
Cost-to-crew-quality is a different matter; there's a few tables in Dilettante that describe hiring minions of different quality - it'd be good do be able to recruit an 'elite' squadron or something, and/or get a number of named characters to lead big ships or groups. Especially in big Barrage fights, a few extra points of crew skill can make all the difference.
Something akin to the mission generation tables in High Guard would be good - effectively some scenario tables to determine who gets the jump on who and in what circumstances (rearming/refuelling/etc).
Lastly, a few odds and ends of new kit couldn't hurt..I can think of a few fleet-level items (ELINT gear, area point defence, dry-dock ships, replenishment-whilst-underway of spares, ammo, and fuel, etc).
It seems to me that we need to define exactly what the Trillion Credit Squadron book's goal is. I don't have a copy of the old classic one, so I forget. Was it just to define the rules for a squadron, and the players were to then "jump into the arena with said custom fleet"?
I recall playing TCS once back in the early '80s, when they had the sheet detailing their statistical method of resolving hits, etc. But I was still in High School, and my Mom made me leave the convention (Towson State, MD I believe) before we finished the battle.
I would think that it would be desirable to have sub-goals to force players to split up their forces. Additional missions that need to have ships detailed to in order to affect the main clash later on. Missions such as supply line raiding (go after munitions ships, tankers, mobile repair yards, etc) in order to reduce the enemy's morale and supply situation. Many battles are won or lost due to logistical and morale concerns than due to tactical errors.
The old story of "amateurs talk about tactics, professionals talk about logistics". It would be a nasty surprise for the defender to find that he's ignored defending his logistical train only to find that when the main fight happens he's starting off with less than 100% munitions load, some key systems down due to lack of spare parts for maintenance, etc.
So maybe have missions like supply line raiding, quick strikes to weaken a key unit, whittle down local planetary defenses, etc, might in order.
I agree with the concept of several steps up to a trillion credit squadron being in order. It's a lot to run. I would think it'd be desirable to have several players, each in charge of a chunk of the total force, to speed things up lest it take too long. It also would be useful for the players to have some sort of automation in order to speed up weapons fire and damage resolution. (some sort of primitive program on a CD or something downloadable from the website as an optional aid?).
I can think of new units being needed such as tanker, munitions ship, mobile repair yard, perhaps a stealth-jump equipped ship that functions as a rally point way out in the Oort Cloud for damaged ships to retreat to for repairs/refuelling.
Certainly some way to conduct area point defense would be very handy. Modified multi-warhead missile rules, or a subclass of standard missiles (lower weight, high acceleration, designed for attacking fighters and/or incoming missiles) might be nice.
As an aside, if the OP wants to re-run the Billion Credit scenario, perhaps changed a bit, I might be up for designing a ship to compete in it. I best get cracking on better understanding the rules...maybe work up a couple designs just in case.
I recall playing TCS once back in the early '80s, when they had the sheet detailing their statistical method of resolving hits, etc. But I was still in High School, and my Mom made me leave the convention (Towson State, MD I believe) before we finished the battle.
I would think that it would be desirable to have sub-goals to force players to split up their forces. Additional missions that need to have ships detailed to in order to affect the main clash later on. Missions such as supply line raiding (go after munitions ships, tankers, mobile repair yards, etc) in order to reduce the enemy's morale and supply situation. Many battles are won or lost due to logistical and morale concerns than due to tactical errors.
The old story of "amateurs talk about tactics, professionals talk about logistics". It would be a nasty surprise for the defender to find that he's ignored defending his logistical train only to find that when the main fight happens he's starting off with less than 100% munitions load, some key systems down due to lack of spare parts for maintenance, etc.
So maybe have missions like supply line raiding, quick strikes to weaken a key unit, whittle down local planetary defenses, etc, might in order.
I agree with the concept of several steps up to a trillion credit squadron being in order. It's a lot to run. I would think it'd be desirable to have several players, each in charge of a chunk of the total force, to speed things up lest it take too long. It also would be useful for the players to have some sort of automation in order to speed up weapons fire and damage resolution. (some sort of primitive program on a CD or something downloadable from the website as an optional aid?).
I can think of new units being needed such as tanker, munitions ship, mobile repair yard, perhaps a stealth-jump equipped ship that functions as a rally point way out in the Oort Cloud for damaged ships to retreat to for repairs/refuelling.
Certainly some way to conduct area point defense would be very handy. Modified multi-warhead missile rules, or a subclass of standard missiles (lower weight, high acceleration, designed for attacking fighters and/or incoming missiles) might be nice.
As an aside, if the OP wants to re-run the Billion Credit scenario, perhaps changed a bit, I might be up for designing a ship to compete in it. I best get cracking on better understanding the rules...maybe work up a couple designs just in case.
Yes. I see it as running a little war. Others may just want a starship bash.
Classic TCS had the following things:
~Some blurb
~Some criteria for your trillion-credit fleet (tech levels, defining how much of a fleet had to be refuel-capable for a task group to be capable of sustained jumps)
~Some economy stuff (how much a planet generates for you to spend on shipbuilding, what TL stuff you can spend it on, relative to the planet's ID code and TL)
~'Statistical Combat Resolution' Read: High guard barrage rules
~The rules for the 1981, 1982 and 1983 TCS tournaments.
~ Rules for a campaign - design your fleet, chances to steal enemy designs, all players start blowing others up
~ A pre-written setting - the "islands" campaign.
I think I have it as a PDF somewhere.
The actual combat was very much "jump into the arena with said custom fleet" - things were settled in the old navy fashion; first one to die, loses.
That's the big thing I'd like to see. Munitions specifically aren't too important because almost every ship design I've seen is usually go-go-gadget particle beam. However ships like the Yamato in this thread are burning 40 KCr worth of maintenance per month so there must be a fair proportion of spares and consumables in there.
Logistics and repair yard I'd mentioned but scout/rally point is a nice idea.
Again, it opens up opportunities for interesting occurances; some sort of fuelling or munitions transfer accident, for example, or training ops.
One thing that might be interesting is to require that once a weapon passes 3-4 tech levels past it's introduction, that it's considered an "antique" weapon and put some restrictions on it's use. Call it navy doctrine or politics from upon high, etc.
That might end up with a TL 15 ship for example, being forced to eschew everything but meson weapons due to doctrine. Not that particle beams aren't effective, it's just that the senior leadership considers them too old to be used. After all, look at modern Navy ships. The actual ship commanders have little say in what weapons the ships get equipped with; mainly it's politics and senior officers having say.
This might not be such a factor if one is designing ships for the Imperial Navy (TL 12 average), but certainly for one that is more up to date (TL 14-15).
You'd have to be careful not to go too far, lest you disallow entirely the use of old but still effective defensive weapons such as pulse lasers or sandcasters though.
That might end up with a TL 15 ship for example, being forced to eschew everything but meson weapons due to doctrine. Not that particle beams aren't effective, it's just that the senior leadership considers them too old to be used. After all, look at modern Navy ships. The actual ship commanders have little say in what weapons the ships get equipped with; mainly it's politics and senior officers having say.
This might not be such a factor if one is designing ships for the Imperial Navy (TL 12 average), but certainly for one that is more up to date (TL 14-15).
You'd have to be careful not to go too far, lest you disallow entirely the use of old but still effective defensive weapons such as pulse lasers or sandcasters though.
Not sure - remember that in TCS you are the navy's BuShips development team, so the navy's doctrine is what you say it is.
Applying things to a fleet that give it character is one thing but I'd prefer not to have that externally imposed, especially with something as nebulous as tech level.
For example, what if a player decides his fleet is very defense-focused, to the extent of having armour a generation or more ahead of its weapons? He might fit TL12 crystaliron plate on an otherwise low-tech hull.
