Big list of changes in the Second Edition

thulsa

Mongoose
Hi,

I've posted a list of changes between the editions here:

http://hyboria.xoth.net/rules/changes_in_conan_second_edition.htm

If you find any other differences between the two editions that are not on the list, please let me know so I can update it.

- thulsa
 
Wohooo, I got my copy of 2nd edition in the mail today! :D After having leafed through it for the last hour or so, here are some changes I've noticed:

* Rules for doing ability scores with point-buy (page 9).

* Some guidelines and advice for starting at higher than 1st level (pages 11-12).

* All races now get Knowledge (local) as a background skill.

* Knowledge (local) is now explicitly defined as only covering a specific region (page 109).

* Knowledge (rumours) is a new skill that covers the more general use that some people have previously used Knowledge (local) for (page 109).

* Knowledge (warfare) is a new skill (page 109).

* You can now only apply sneak attack damage if your base damage manages to bypass or pierce armour (page 198). Wow, that's kind of a big change...

* Slightly altered prereqs for the Monster Slayer feat (page 133).
 
Yes, one more:

* It's now explicitly stated that you never add a Str bonus when firing a hunting bow (page 146).
 
Ah, might as well while I'm at it:

* A much clearer description (and better, IMO, as Lightning Reflexes is now actually a useful feat!) of what you add to your Initiative check (page 176).

* A new race: the Drow elf (page.....eh... I can't seem to find it right now, but I saw it just a second ago, I swear! :P ).
 
Trodax said:
* A new race: the Drow elf (page.....eh... I can't seem to find it right now, but I saw it just a second ago, I swear! :P ).
had you a heavy hand on black lotus again?
 
thulsa said:
Hi,

I've posted a list of changes between the editions here:

http://hyboria.xoth.net/rules/changes_in_conan_second_edition.htm

If you find any other differences between the two editions that are not on the list, please let me know so I can update it.

- thulsa

Rock on.

By the looks of this list, the only things they changed are things that won't really have much of an impact game-wise.

...and why change the greatsword damage? It worked fine like it was...house rule time, maybe?
 
I've added Trodax's findings to my list:

http://hyboria.xoth.net/rules/changes_in_conan_second_edition.htm

- thulsa
 
Thanks Thulsa & Trodax for that list.

My Birthday is coming up and I know what I'm getting! :D

I'm curious as to some of the little changes they have made to my favorite RPG line.

What kinds of changes have they made to Reputation? Namely, what new 'Nature of Reputation' have they added?

I remember someone hinted at the Temptress's Sneak Attack ability becoming one of a number of abilities she may learn. I want to know what those abilities are?

I also want to know what are the race, class and level of each of the new NPCs?

Thanks for any reply!
 
Well, hunh. There are enough changes in here that mean that I will have to get the new core.

...

You know, I can't find it in me to get upset?

Once I get the funds this puppy WILL be mine!
 
Trodax said:
* You can now only apply sneak attack damage if your base damage manages to bypass or pierce armour (page 198). Wow, that's kind of a big change...

Ew...don't llike that at all. makes no sense. I thought the idea was that SA was to deal loads of damage with lighter weapons that had crappy AP (rapier, dagger, etc.).

Wassup?????

Trodax said:
* A new race: the Drow elf (page.....eh... I can't seem to find it right now, but I saw it just a second ago, I swear! )..

I think it's right there after Dragonkin, but before Kender...

:roll:
 
Sutek said:
Trodax said:
* You can now only apply sneak attack damage if your base damage manages to bypass or pierce armour (page 198). Wow, that's kind of a big change...

Ew...don't llike that at all. makes no sense. I thought the idea was that SA was to deal loads of damage with lighter weapons that had crappy AP (rapier, dagger, etc.).

Wassup?????

One of the running complaints was that Sneak Attack was overpowered. Rapier and dagger are finesse weapons anyway, and forcing rogues to actually penetrate or bypass their foe's armour makes it clear that a sneak attack represents the rogue being able to backstab and gut enemies.
 
Hi guys,
I got my author's copy of 2nd ed, so I can finally compare my word documents with the finished product. Here's the start of the list of changes that I made that show up in the book - other changes may have been made after I handed it in, so I might miss some of those...

Anyway, here's the first three chapters.

RACES
* Argosseans & Barachans get Survival
* Bossonians get Survival
* Gunderlanders get Knowledge (military tactics - this should read Warfare)
* Hyperboreans get Knowledge (arcana)
* Taurans get Knowledge (nature)
* Hykanians get Handle Animal
* Picts get Move Silently
* Zingarans get Bluff

CLASSES
Barbarians: unchanged

Borderers:
* Rumours as a class skill
* may pick a region as a favoured terrain
* gets his terrain bonus as a Reputation bonus if he picks a region
* may gain the trapping style of combat
* Trapping style gains Stealth at 2nd level
* Trappers can set traps at 5th level, giving him a number of Aid Another actions for free. Also gains Poison Use feat.
* Trappers get Monster Slayer at 11th level

Nobles:
* Rumours and Warfare as class skills
* Entertainer social ability can ruin other people's Reputations (DC10 + 1/4 of target Reputation), reduces Reputation by half until the slanders are disproved or forgotten
* Entertainer social ability can increase Reputation gains from deeds
* New social ability: Increase Social Standing by +2
* New social ability: Secrets, giving a +4 bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks against one person
* Do You Know Who I Am? changed to work with new reputation rules

Nomads:
* Rumours as class skill
* Can choose a region as their favoured terrain, just like Borderers

Pirate: Rumours as class skill
Scholar: Unchanged

Soldier:
* Warfare and rumours added as a class skill
* Improved versions of all formations added. They work just like the basic version, doubling all bonuses.
* Extra formation at 19th level
* Officer Ability: Gained at 5th level, allows the soldier to designate a number of people equal to his Int bonus to count as soldiers for the purposes of being in formations he knows. Only basic formations can be used, unless the targets already have the basic version of the formation, in which case the officer can order them into improved formations using this ability.

The officer may affect one extra person at 9th, 13th and 17th level (so a 20th level officer could order around a number of people equal to his Int bonus +3). The officer must make a free action each round to order people around, they have to be able to hear him, no running around in fighting madness or fear etc etc.

TEMPTRESS:
* Added as a base class
* has stolen my copy of Hyboria's Fallen, so I can't compare the old and new classes.

THIEF:
* Sneak attack changed: you have to penetrate or bypass armour to get the bonus damage.
* Rumours as a class skill

FATE POINTS:
* You can spend a Fate Point to get a Parry or Dodge with a +5 bonus even when you'd normally be denied a parry or dodge.
* You can spend a Fate Point for a reroll
* You can spend a Fate Point to resist Terror of the Unknown
* You now regain Fate Points by foreshadowing. At the start of an adventure, you write down /describe to the GM up to three situations that may occur in-game. If one of those situations happens, gain a Fate Point.

For example, imagine that the events of The Tower of the Elephant were the first adventure of Conan as a player character. Conan’s player might have Foreshadowed these events:
· Being mocked for being a barbarian (to show that the new character is a barbarian)
· Attacked from behind (showing the Games Master that he wants combat and nasty tricks)
· Making a new ally (to ensure that the party gets together)

Conan would have picked up one Fate Point when mocked in the inn, another when he agrees to help the thief Taurus to steal the gemstone, and a third when he is attacked by spiders in the tower. He would not have gotten a fourth Fate Point when he allies himself with the demon Yag-Kosha, as he had already picked up the Fate Point for “making a new ally” by allying himself with Taurus.

You can change your Foreshadowed events after each adventure.

CODES OF HONOUR
* Added the mercenary code.

REPUTATION
* Now, the main source of reputation is your deeds. Each adventure is rated from 1 to 5 or more depending on how famous it is. You add all your adventures together for your Reputation score. Each adventure should also have type associated with it, which says what sort of Reputation that adventure gives you - Bloodthirsty Warrior, Rich Man, Traitor, Hero etc.

* You also get reputation from Social Standing. Social Standing is rated from -2 (those bastards in another country) to 10 (god-king).

* Both deeds and Social Standing change the further you travel, from -1 for a different country to -4 for a far land.
 
SKILLS: Other than the addition of Knowledge (rumours) and (military tactics), pretty much unchanged.

I'll editorialise here for a second - there were two reasons why I didn't change the skill system, when a lot of people expected skills to be merged and consolidated ala Babylon 5 2nd Edition. Firstly, the Conan line has had a larger number of rules-heavy supplements than B5, and I didn't want to break compatability with 1st edition stuff if I could avoid it.

Secondly, Conan is a very physical game. Knowing precisely what your character can do well or poorly is very important. Merging, say, Climb and Balance and Swim and Jump into Athletics seemed to rob the game of a certain raw flavour.

FEATS
* Opportunistic Sacrifice no longer works with Defensive Blast
* Ranged Finesse now takes a Move action
* Ritual Sacrifice changed to work with revised Sacrifice rules
* Ditto Tortured Sacrifice
 
COMBAT
* Initiative is now explicitly a Reflex saving throw.
* Massive Damage brings you to -1d10 hit points
* When someone tries to grapple you, you can use Dodge or Grapple to resist
* New manoeuvre: Aim (full round action, +2 to next ranged attack(
* Cat's Parry reduced to +3 parry bonus
* New manoeuvre: Dance Aside (free five-foot step when dodging)
* New manoeuvre: Masterful Disarm (knock weapon from opponent's hand and grab it in your off-hand)
* New manoeuvre: Ranged Disarm (what it sounds like)
* New manoeuvre: Distracting Arrow (-2 to foe's DV)
* New manoeuvre: Force Back (send enemy reeling or do extra damage if he stands firm)
* New manoeuvre: Improvised Attack (get a free attack on a second enemy, but only with improvised weapons)
* New manoeuvre: Kip Up (stand up quickly)
* New manoeuvre: Leave Them For Dead!: Cleave even if you haven't dropped a foe, but he gets an attack of opportunity on you.
* New manoeuvre: Lock weapons if you get exactly your foe's parry defence.
* New manoeuvre: Roll (avoid prone penalty)
* New manoeuvre: Riposte (free attack if you parry really well)
* New manoeuvre: Shield Slam (knock enemy's sword aside, or smash your shield)
* New manoeuvre: Use the Battlefield (+2 stunt bonus)

* Vast wodges of SRD stuff added.
 
SORCERY
* Sorcerers now only need one hand free when casting
* Sacrifices now give varying PP per hit point. An ordinary person gives 1 PP/8 HP, for instance. Feats let you move down this table (tortured sacrifice, for instance, lets you move two steps down the table. The best sacrifice (a ritually prepared perfect offering) gives 1 PP/1 HP.
* Rule of Success lasts until the end of the next round
* Defensive Blasts: Each style now has its own defensive blast. You get one DB for free with your first style - all others must be bought as spells.
* Rule of the Master: thralls' brains melt if you pull too much power through them
* Overcharging a spell: each extra PP spent gives a +1 to your Magic Attack Roll.

COUNTERSPELLS
* Defensive blast is Desperate Ward - you get a huge bonus to a save against one spell
* Ward Dwelling - protect a building
* Ward by Will: Blocks damage

CURSES
* Defensive Blast is Weapon Curse - for the duration of the round, attackers take damage from their own attacks instead of the sorcerer
* Doom spell: stops you from using Fate points

DIVINATION
* Not This Day Defensive 'Blast': you get lots of bonus HP for one round. Then the barbarian kills you anyway.
* Blessing of Fate: Transfer a fate point

HYPNOTISM
* Defensive Blast is Terrible Fascination: Entrances everyone nearby for 1d4 rounds
* Hypnotic Suggestions now lets you convince your target of some illusion. Hi, I'm Conan.

NATURE MAGIC
* Defensive Blast is Animal Intercessor - animal appears, takes the hit for you, and then whacks your attacker. You can ride it out of combat if its big enough.
* Spirit of the Land: Hippy magic goodness
* Command Weather: Control weather

NECROMANCY
* Defensive Blast is Chill of the Grave. Works like the old-style blast, but doesn't affect undead
* The Dead Speak: Chat with the dead.

ORIENTAL MAGIC
* Defensive Blast is Obi-Wan Kenobi
* Willow Dance: Extra movement/Balance/Jump

PRESTIDIGIATION
* Blast Wave: Knock enemies back
* Conjure Item: Up my sleeve, I appear to have a tulwar.
* Deflection: Either an immediate parry for you, or a readied parry against any attack within range

SUMMONING
* Defensive Blast is Master, Aid Me!. Does exactly what it says on the horrible eldritch tin.
* Channel Demon: Fangs and claws and strength bonuses! And corruption.

OTHER BITS
* You can now attempt to cast spells from spellbooks if you don't have the Style. It's not recommended - you can only cast spells with a casting time of a Full Round or longer, it costs an extra d6 Power Points, and requires a Knowledge (arcana) check with a DC ranging from 20 (basic spell you don't know) to 40 (mighty spell). If the check is failed, the spell is not cast and you suffer Runaway Magic.

* Poisons now work differently. A poison now lists its Damage the number of saves required, and the interval between saving throws. Each time you fail a saving throw against a poison, the damage goes up by one dice type.

When a character takes damage from an attack with a poisoned weapon, touches an item smeared with contact poison, consumes poisoned food or drink or is otherwise poisoned, he must make a series of Fortitude saving throws. The number and timing of such throws depends on the poison – a fast-acting poison might require three throws in three successive rounds, while a slower, more long-lasting venom might require one saving throw every hour for twelve hours. The first time a character fails a saving throw, he takes damage from the poison, which is normally ability score damage. Each time after that the character fails a saving throw against the poison, the die used increases by one step and he takes more damage. For example, a character is struck by a serpent whose poison deals 1d4 Constitution damage, and requires one saving throw every fifteen minutes for one hour. He passes the first saving throw, but fails the second, taking 1d4 Constitution damage. He then fails the third and fourth saving throws, taking 1d6 and 1d8 damage respectively, for a total of 1d4+1d6+1d8 Constitution damage.
 
Mongoose Gar said:
I'll editorialise here for a second - there were two reasons why I didn't change the skill system, when a lot of people expected skills to be merged and consolidated ala Babylon 5 2nd Edition. Firstly, the Conan line has had a larger number of rules-heavy supplements than B5, and I didn't want to break compatability with 1st edition stuff if I could avoid it.

Secondly, Conan is a very physical game. Knowing precisely what your character can do well or poorly is very important. Merging, say, Climb and Balance and Swim and Jump into Athletics seemed to rob the game of a certain raw flavour.

Still wish you had done some consolidation. While Climb and Swim are essential skills that should be left alone, I don't see any reason why Listen and Spot (and possibly Search) couldn't be rolled into a "Perception" skill, while Hide and Move Silently could become "Stealth". Balance, Escape Artist and Tumble could become "Acrobatics".

The purpose would be to simplify running the game. I'm never really sure whether the players should roll Move Silently or Hide (or both?) when sneaking up to some unsuspecting guard -- so why not just make a Stealth vs Perception opposed check?

Of course, I could house-rule this myself, but I don't want to stray too far away from the official rules. Guess we'll have to wait until 3rd Edition for this streamlining... :-(

- thulsa
 
Mongoose Gar said:
I got my author's copy of 2nd ed, so I can finally compare my word documents with the finished product. Here's the start of the list of changes that I made that show up in the book - other changes may have been made after I handed it in, so I might miss some of those...

By the way, I assume it's okay that I add your list of changes to my existing list?

- thulsa
 
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