Beginner AAA score Questions

[BigGun]

Hello,

I'm very new here in the forum but used to play the old Victory at Sea longer, and have general interest in naval history.
First of all I like to give a big compliment for the game!
I've liked the old Victor at Sea, and recently skimmed through over the 2.0 rules and I believe that they are a big improvement.
Torpedos and criticals look more potent to me and I have the feeling that this makes the game better and more realistic.
Congratulations for this. Also the data values for the ships seems improves to me.

I have a question about AAA fire and the AAA fire strength.
Is there a "math" rule how the values are calculated?

For example the "Warspite" has a AAA of 7?
How is this calculated on which number of guns?
Could you help me understand this and maybe give an example of how
the calculation would look for the Bismark?


Many thanks in advance

 

[BigGun]

Lets follow up on the AAA calculation.
My information might be incomplete but what I know about the 2 ships is

Warspite AAA(7)
8 x 10cm
16 x 4cm
16 x 1cm

Bismark AAA(2)
• 16 x 10.5cm SK C/33 guns in eight double mounts.
• 16 x 3.7cm SK C/30 guns in eight double mounts
• 20 x 2cm guns

Looking at the number of guns, Bismark seems to have stronger AAA.
Can you please help me understand why the rules have the AAA score the other way around?

 

[BigGun]

Maybe it help to put another example in it:

HMS Unicorn AAA=4 (in the fleet list)

I think it hat this armament:
8 x 10cm
16 x 4cm
12 x 2cm

Can you help me understand the AAA values?

*******************************************************************************


Maybe it makes sense for the sake of argument to "value" the guns
Lets say high caliber guns give 2 points
Medium caliber 1.5 points
and small caliber 2cm 1 point
and smaller caliber 0.5 point

Warspite AAA (score 7)
8 x 10cm 16 pts
16 x 4cm 24 pts
16 x 1cm 8 pts
---------------------------
Total 48 pts

Bismark AAA (score 2)
• 16 x 10.5cm 32 pts
• 16 x 3.7cm 24 pts
• 20 x 2cm 20 pts
---------------------------------
Total 76 pts


HMS Unicorn AAA (score 4)
8 x 10cm 16 pts
16 x 4cm 24 pts
12 x 2cm 12 pts
---------------------------------
Total 52 pts


Of course this point calculation is just a very simple approach to "value" this.
If you think another calculation is better, then please explain and help me understand.

If I would go by my points assumption and would say 25 pts == 1 AAA score then
WARSPITE should have AAA=2
UNICORN should have AAA=2
BISMARK should have AAA=3



My naval knowledge about the amount of guns might be incorrect.
If so, then please tell me.

I dont want to complain, i just want to understand.
I like to know if the AAA scores are just misprints, or I looked at and old version of the rules.
Or if my knowledge about the ships is not fully correct.
Today I not understand some number as a ship with about "twice" the guns has a halve the AAA score.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hey there,

Well, this is a fair can of worms you have opened

On the face of it, yes, calculations are made based on number and type of AA guns. However, they then go through a process of revision by the Official Naval Boffins, which take into account specific aspects of the guns, their placement, training of the crews, ammunition used, and a host of other factors that turn up in their research on each ship.

Hope that helps!

 

[rbax]

Hi,

I'm part of the group who worked on the statistics....at its simplest we start by looking out the amount of metal the AA guns can put up in a minute. So let's look at two examples, the Warspite and the Bismark. But first lets take out the 10.2 cm and 10.5 guns us they are listed as Light, Dual Purpose Weapons in the own entry. That leaves the following (Note in 1939, the Warspite actually had 32 x 4 cm, and 16 x 0.5in but lets ignore that and stick with the numbers provided below. Looks like they should be near equal, with the Bismarck slightly better but....looks can be deceiving...

Warspite AAA
16 x 4cm

The basic octuple 2-prs (each barrel fired a 2 lb projectile at about 115 rounds per minute), for 16 barrels that's a total of 3,680 lbs/minute

16 x 2cm

The 20mm Oerlikon (Great gun, 0.272 lb projectile at 285 rounds per minute), for 16 barrels that's 1,240 lbs/minute

That means the Wasrpite is throwing ~4,920 lbs of metal per minute into the air.

Now the Bismark

Bismarck AAA
16 x 3.7cm

The standard 3.7cm SK L/83 C30 (Not so great a gun...a 1.63 lb projectile, but at only 30 rounds per minute), for 16 barrels that's only 782 lbs/minute

20 x 2cm

Interestingly these 20 x 2cm came in two forms at the time the Bismarck was sailing around and she had some of both:

12 x 2cm Flak L/65 C30 in single mounts (0.326 lbs projectile at 120 rounds per minute), for 12 barrels that's 469 lbs/minute

8 x 2cm Flak L/65 C38 in two quad mounts, basically a faster firing version (0.326 lbs projectile at 220 rounds per minute), for 8 barrels that's 574 lbs/minute

That means the Bismarck is throwing 1,825 lbs of metal per minute into the air. 2.7 times LESS than the Warspite.

So roughly similar armament....but vastly different amounts of shear metal flying through the air...and one of the primary reasons for different LOCAL values.

Hope this helps,

--- Rich

 

[AlbertArmstrong]

I'm very new here in the forum but used to play the old Victory at Sea longer, and have general interest in naval history.
First of all I like to give a big compliment for the game!
I've liked the old Victor at Sea, and recently skimmed through over the 2.0 rules and I believe that they are a big improvement.
Torpedos and criticals look more potent to me and I have the feeling that this makes the game better and more realistic.
Congratulations for this. Also the data values for the ships seems improves to me.

I have a question about AAA fire and the AAA fire strength.
Is there a "math" rule how the values are calculated?

For example the "Warspite" has a AAA of 7?
How is this calculated on which number of guns?
Could you help me understand this and maybe give an example of how
the calculation would look for the Bismark?


Many thanks in advance

In the case of the Warspite, the AAA value of 7 represents the total number of anti-aircraft guns on the ship, including both light and heavy guns. The exact distribution of these guns can vary depending on the specific ship's design and refits.

For the Bismarck, its AAA value of 8 represents the total number of anti-aircraft guns on the ship. According to historical records, the Bismarck was equipped with 12 x 105mm and 16 x 37mm anti-aircraft guns, among other smaller guns.

 

[Condottiere]

You probably want to combine that with synchronized fire control.

Bismarck, famously, couldn't swat slow flying biplanes.