BAN Ancients from the ID Gaming War Tourney

[Hash]

I think any of the ancients can be beaten...with the possible exception the lordship!

Still I reckon a clever shadow player can still manage a draw (by not allowing ANY of his ships in range and/or arc of the vessel. Hull 6 and adaptive armour AND regenerate will shrug off almost anything.

I've been thinking on how to beat the lordship...not going to be easy but my brave Drazi will give it a try! (as soon as I get 'em painted).

EDIT: Burger - I think Reaverman is upset cause you've taken a cheesier fleet than his Vorlon monstrosities! You've raised the cheddar level a notch

 

[Reaverman]

I think any of the ancients can be beaten...with the possible exception the lordship!

Still I reckon a clever shadow player can still manage a draw (by not allowing ANY of his ships in range and/or arc of the vessel. Hull 6 and adaptive armour AND regenerate will shrug off almost anything.

I've been thinking on how to beat the lordship...not going to be easy but my brave Drazi will give it a try! (as soon as I get 'em painted).

EDIT: Burger - I think Reaverman is upset cause you've taken a cheesier fleet than his Vorlon monstrosities! You've raised the cheddar level a notch

No I was in two minds of taking a Narn fleet, and my fleet is beatable. It just has a hard initial burst and thats it. BTW other players are taking ancients!

 

[Hash]

BTW other players are taking ancients!

Good...no shame in losing to cheddar on a stick, hey that's good, I'll bring cocktail sticks and cheddar to give to the ancients players

I reckon only the Lordship will prove a real problem from the ancients...but then think of the glory if you manage to take one of those beasts down! You'll truly be the MASTER OF WAR! MUHAHAHA ...err sorry got carried away.

Why are you pulling out anyway dude - so what if multiple players are taking ancients, good luck to them, at least my games vs. them will be short

 

[Reaverman]

BTW other players are taking ancients!

Good...no shame in losing to cheddar on a stick, hey that's good, I'll bring cocktail sticks and cheddar to give to the ancients players

I reckon only the Lordship will prove a real problem from the ancients...but then think of the glory if you manage to take one of those beasts down! You'll truly be the MASTER OF WAR! MUHAHAHA ...err sorry got carried away.

Why are you pulling out anyway dude - so what if multiple players are taking ancients, good luck to them, at least my games vs. them will be short

well read the begining of the thread for a start

 

[meglos]

imo anyone who takes ancients has a hard game ahead,i played darkblades shadows on saturday,and boy did i take a beating.
going back to the triumviron v vorlons , the vorlon stats only change when there dead,in the game i had on saturday my first hit my triuviron took was no weapon, yes it could repair that at the end o next turn guess what it was dead.
ancients are hard to use against fleets on the grounds of they have 5 ships max , in this tourney you can have 1,well even if the ancients win the initiative his opponents fleet will out number him so much, even ea will boresight him to death without worry.
i would like to know how this ancient goes on in the tourney,will you let us know burger?

 

[Reaverman]

imo anyone who takes ancients has a hard game ahead,i played darkblades shadows on saturday,and boy did i take a beating.
going back to the triumviron v vorlons , the vorlon stats only change when there dead,in the game i had on saturday my first hit my triuviron took was no weapon, yes it could repair that at the end o next turn guess what it was dead.
ancients are hard to use against fleets on the grounds of they have 5 ships max , in this tourney you can have 1,well even if the ancients win the initiative his opponents fleet will out number him so much, even ea will boresight him to death without worry.
i would like to know how this ancient goes on in the tourney,will you let us know burger?

Yes, and that was with 10 Warpoints each, and with Shadows....which dont take crits. Now try the same game, with EA, Narn, Minbari!

 

[meglos]

well darkblade was thinking of using minbari, but i agree with you that the minbari are out of there depth.
ea i think would have a good chance ,well depending on what era.[warlock for war]
narn i think would have a good go against them too.
what fleet were you thinking of using again ?

 

[Burger]

Seems like SNJ is the only person commenting here who has actually used the Ancients in any kind of test environment. And they lost every time. Exactly like I suspeced, they are extremely vulnerable to crits, even though they repair them the next turn, a 4-6 crit takes down your entire fleet's firepower for a full turn. So, I think it's my turn to say "talk to the hand". I'm out of this thread now.

 

[H]

personally, While I don't really care if you take them, I do think they might be bloody boring to play, only one ship. Most ancient ships I would have more confidence of taking down than a bloody Vorlon fleet. I admit, the mimbari would loose stealth, whoop de do, now they know how the rest of us feel not having any!

I'm playing in the tourney regardless. I have listed mysefl at drakh, but I really fancy trying the G'Vrahn in a Narn fleet so we will see.

 

[Hash]

We had a playtest tonight:

Lordship vs 5pt War EA Crusade Fleet - massive win for the EA! The crits kept piling up on weapon systems (luck 4-6 crit in the first turn!)- the Lordship got to fire once in the whole game (with 2 less attack dice) doing no crits but 18 damage to a Command Omega...the Lordship was sustaining maybe 6 - 8 crits a turn and had a less than a third of its hits by turn 6...not a single EA ship was lost...

Result: 20 - 0 LOSS for Lordship

Lordship vs 5pt War Vorlon fleet - the Vorlons almost cinched victory but just couldn't get into arc to get that one last shot off - one healthy Heavy Cruiser left, one Ancient on about 30 damage left!

Result: 17 - 3 WIN for Lordship - was a very close game though, one more comeabout from the Vorlon HC would have been a 20 - 0 loss for the lordship!

Conclusion? The Lordship is tough but it suffers greatly from crits, despite repairing at the end of the next turn automatically...it's down to luck really, a few crits will keep the ship down but woe betide you if you fail to get any!

BTW playing as a lordship is a very BORING game vs. 5pt war, and I imagine the same would be for any ancient as you get to move one ship (if that, damn engine hits) while you're opponent rolls dozens of dice against you...you can't even count on winning initiative as your opponent is likely to have a command bonus that ups his initiative to something more even.

Still - the ancients do look very tempting and I reckon the Trimviron will still kick the crap out of big ships (especially Vorlons and Shadows) but we'll see I guess.

 

[Majeh]

I had no problem defeating a lordship with drazi. I knew my game plan and use terrain to my advantge.

 

[Triggy]

Interesting reports although I still think there was a game on in the EA match, lucky numbers of 4-6 crits aside (probably should only have had one)

The Ancients almost certainly work best when up against a few larger ships (as do all ships really), especially when they sacrifice a War point to take them at all.

Just one other point, how did you get -2AD to the Lordship (in both games)? You do know that AD loss crits don't stack don't you?

 

[tneva82]

Seems like SNJ is the only person commenting here who has actually used the Ancients in any kind of test environment. And they lost every time. Exactly like I suspeced,

Why let facts get in way of whining :lol:

 

[Locutus9956]

As noted by many people your talking about a 5pt WAR fleet. Thats a HUGE amount of firepower no matter how you spend it and that's ALL focused on one target! Sure the Lordship is tough and could make for a hard opponent but it's not invincible by any stretch!

Also of note:
The fact that they DO take crits makes it much harder for them to blast a ship or two and jump out (also doing that and winning is easier said than done, dont forget if it jumps out your effectively giving your opponent an Armageddon ships worth of victory points (its half points for withdrawing isnt it? (correct me if Im wrong though, dont have the rule books to hand)

 

[Hash]

Just one other point, how did you get -2AD to the Lordship (in both games)? You do know that AD loss crits don't stack don't you?

Well that's what I thought Triggy until the Masters of War tourney where Matt Sprange told me they stack! Its only the speed ones that don't...

Yeah I know, I thought it was a strange ruling too - it was a horrible game to play, I spent most of the game noting down damage doing not much else. I was receiving multiple crits a turn (to engines and weapons mainly) and found myself unable to take special actions after turn 1...

 

[Celisasu]

If I was trying to abuse the tournament I'd probably try a fleet consisting of 5 Tertius and 10 Prefects.

 

[Burger]

If I was trying to abuse the tournament I'd probably try a fleet consisting of 5 Tertius and 10 Prefects.

5 Tertius, 9 Prefect and 3 Corvan you mean

And yeah, the number of crits the Lordship was receiving was immense. I was lucky that most of mine were engines, reactor and crew; I only lost the starboard weapon arc once, but I also lost initiative most times so one turn I had nothing in F arc.

 

[H]

oooh, just checked the new ridiculous over the top break down, I get 6 skirmish for a war?! so in a 5 war point tournament, I could have 30 drakh raiders to take on an ancient feel the pain.... sure, I'd loose some every round, even dodge is unlikely to save me. hmm, 5 6 ship squadrons, 12 SAP Double damage precise beams a Heavy raider squadron, yay! Shame about my range :-(

 

[Burger]

oooh, just checked the new ridiculous over the top break down, I get 6 skirmish for a war?! so in a 5 war point tournament, I could have 30 drakh raiders to take on an ancient feel the pain.... sure, I'd loose some every round, even dodge is unlikely to save me. hmm, 5 6 ship squadrons, 12 SAP Double damage precise beams a Heavy raider squadron, yay! Shame about my range :-(

You're not going to have 5 motherships, and get 40 heavy raiders plus 5 free motherships?

 

[Locutus9956]

Ah but you have to launch those raiders then and ancients CAN take down a Drakh mother ship before it gets many out I suspect (not to mention giving up a War points worth of VPs....)