B5's end.
- Thread starter Ateth Istarlin
- Start date
Mongoose Gar said:
Actually the flash forward to the journalist/historians was within Delenn's lifetime.
The flash forward to the rise of the SS empire that got bombed into oblivion occurred later than that. I always assumed it was a couple of hundred years after the events in B5, but it has been a while since I watched the ep.
P.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
The bombing happens in 2762, thanks to Mr Garibaldi's holo recreation.
LBH
LBH
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
would of been nice to see CC in the Warlock for the last ep of a season
Kizarvexis
Mongoose
From the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5, the 'JMS speaks' section of the "Sleeping in Light" page.
Kizarvexis
Seek and ye shall find
Kizarvexis
Seek and ye shall find
the_first_one
Mongoose
it does make sence when you think about the things that could happen if you left it there.
In my mind B5 and Sheridan were linked on a level that transcends simple cause and effect. Galen even describes Sheridan as a nexus. When Sheridan was at B5, it was there that the major events of the galaxy occurred. When Sheridan left, it became far less important to the galaxy as a whole. When he went beyond the rim, it was no longer needed. The question in my mind isn't why they blew it up, but did anything similar come after?
Babylon 5 was successful because it was a hub for merchants, entrepreneurs, and wanderers. Once the political climate changed and Babylon 5 no longer served much of a purpose, where did the action go? I'm certain that it didn't go away entirely, new ones surely cropped up. When that happened, there would be a need for a space station to handle all the commerce.
Is it possible that Babylon 5 was the first and the largest? What if it was actually the first and the smallest? After all, new races were coming into the fold all the time, and older races were continuing to improve technology, thus making it cheaper and easier to get stuff into space. If they were to build new stations among the traditional trade routes, would they use the artificial gravity technology of the Minbari, or would they go with a more traditional and memorable designs?
JMS really designed the B5 universe in a way that allows us roleplayers to do a lot with it without making major changes to continuity. If I were to run a campaign set 50 years in the future, the galaxy would have become a more wondrous place, not a less wondrous one, so the notion that there are multiple space stations at the intersections of major trade routes makes perfects sense to me. Some of them might even look somewhat familiar.
The major issue I see with regards to making them important locations for an RPG would be finding their relevance. Why you would want to make one a home base for your characters. Babylon 5 was important not only because of trade, but also because of it's political importance. The political aspects shifted to the IA, so any Babylon type stations of the future would likely have little or no political importance. Since they would be mostly useful as centers for trade, it only makes sense that the governments that sponsor them would insist that they be financially self sufficient. That could be a tall order, but I'd like to believe that with improved technology and more of the right type of traffic, it is possible.
Babylon 5 was successful because it was a hub for merchants, entrepreneurs, and wanderers. Once the political climate changed and Babylon 5 no longer served much of a purpose, where did the action go? I'm certain that it didn't go away entirely, new ones surely cropped up. When that happened, there would be a need for a space station to handle all the commerce.
Is it possible that Babylon 5 was the first and the largest? What if it was actually the first and the smallest? After all, new races were coming into the fold all the time, and older races were continuing to improve technology, thus making it cheaper and easier to get stuff into space. If they were to build new stations among the traditional trade routes, would they use the artificial gravity technology of the Minbari, or would they go with a more traditional and memorable designs?
JMS really designed the B5 universe in a way that allows us roleplayers to do a lot with it without making major changes to continuity. If I were to run a campaign set 50 years in the future, the galaxy would have become a more wondrous place, not a less wondrous one, so the notion that there are multiple space stations at the intersections of major trade routes makes perfects sense to me. Some of them might even look somewhat familiar.
The major issue I see with regards to making them important locations for an RPG would be finding their relevance. Why you would want to make one a home base for your characters. Babylon 5 was important not only because of trade, but also because of it's political importance. The political aspects shifted to the IA, so any Babylon type stations of the future would likely have little or no political importance. Since they would be mostly useful as centers for trade, it only makes sense that the governments that sponsor them would insist that they be financially self sufficient. That could be a tall order, but I'd like to believe that with improved technology and more of the right type of traffic, it is possible.
BuShips said:Of course I was talking to the Morden "character" above. As for you, at least you didn't get nuked and then have your head severed and stuck on a sharp stick. :roll:
Just maybe good things are in your future.
Yes, Morden did meet with an unfortunate ending. He was still one of the most compelling and perfectly played characters on the show. Severely underrated, but villains usually are.
Now if I could get this stupid avatar to work. It doesn't want to recognize the avatar location as valid, even though I'm hosting it on another messageboard which I own.
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
the guy who played Mr Morden was an EA officer in the Pilot he was on the command deck at one of the stations.
major geekess here
major geekess here
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Derina said:
Private geekess only, he plays a dome tech, we never see him with any EA insignia, much less officer's bars..
LBH
lastbesthope said:
I like to explain the appearance of Ed Wasser in the pilot as someone from another race that was using a changling net to gather intelligence on Earth tech. They just picked the worst imaginable random human image to use, heh. In other words, one of the main components that Babylon 5 was constructed with was irony. :lol: I think that JMS has said that at the time Ed was playing his first character on Bab 5 as a C&C tech (Guerra in the credits), Morden was out on the rim.
Kizarvexis
Mongoose
jms on B1-B4
Why didn't the Shadows destroy B5 before it went online?
B5 wasn't destroyed because it wasn't the one that would be taken back. Yes, the prior stations would've looked more like B4 but they were sabotaged *very* early in the construction process.
The B1-B3 sabotages had nothing at all to do with the B4 situation; it was just done by forces opposed to the very notion of the Babylon Project.
The first 3 Babylon stations never got much past the very earliest stages of construction, just some hull elements, that sort of thing, nothing that could be recognized. Other forces took them out, mainly for political reasons.
B4 survived the prior shadow war, but in very bad shape; didn't last much longer after that.
B5 is smaller than B4 because they sunk most of their budget into B4; on B5 they had to get outside funding, and scrimped.
B1-B4 were located in roughly the same sector, with B4 using some of the materials from 1-3 leftover. B5 was constructed about 3 hours (traveling time in real-space) from the location of B4.
How did the Shadows know about Babylon 4?
Well, if the Minbari had records of B4's visual look, given that the Shadows are advanced, would they not also have the potential to recognize it for what it was once it was nearing completion from their own records?
Did the Minbari agree to help fund B5 because they knew about B4?
No, because if you remember, even Delenn didn't know where B4 came from until she came to B5, well after completion.
Why don't the Minbari have many records of the last war?
It was also a very devastating war, and one of their mistakes was that there were those who were entrusted to keep the past, sort of a more advanced version of storytellers, who put all their data in one basket, as it were...very possessive and jurisdictional. When they and that center of data were taken out, a lot was lost. One drawback of a very rigid and structued society.
Did B4 have more firepower than B5?
Yeah, B4 had more firepower, and it had one thing B5 doesn't...engines that can move it forward if necessary.
jms on why the station was blown up.
Why scuttle the station?
There are weapons systems on board that station, computer systems, other stuff that would be too much of a hassle to dig out, and you don't want squatters setting up residence there, or raiding the place for what they can get, and maintaining a military presence there to prevent it would be expensive. With trade no longer coming through, the money to keep the station operating was gone.
Why not send it into Epsilon 3's atmosphere?
I don't see how sending a 5 mile long station plummeting into the atmosphere of Epsilon 3 is any more or less real than blowing it up in space, where salvage crews can come in and take the metal. We already *saw* bits of the debris burning up in the atmospher in the second shot... and as for sending the whole thing hurtling down, well, I think Draal might have a thing or two to say about that....
Why not tow it somewhere else?
You couldn't tow something as massive as a 5 mile long station like this through hyperspace; it'd tear apart.
It can be moved, sure, but can it *survive* the move? Also, you'd have to bring B5 through a jump point in order to bring it anywhere, and the stresses involved in that would be hideous.
Kizarvexis
Why didn't the Shadows destroy B5 before it went online?
B5 wasn't destroyed because it wasn't the one that would be taken back. Yes, the prior stations would've looked more like B4 but they were sabotaged *very* early in the construction process.
The B1-B3 sabotages had nothing at all to do with the B4 situation; it was just done by forces opposed to the very notion of the Babylon Project.
The first 3 Babylon stations never got much past the very earliest stages of construction, just some hull elements, that sort of thing, nothing that could be recognized. Other forces took them out, mainly for political reasons.
B4 survived the prior shadow war, but in very bad shape; didn't last much longer after that.
B5 is smaller than B4 because they sunk most of their budget into B4; on B5 they had to get outside funding, and scrimped.
B1-B4 were located in roughly the same sector, with B4 using some of the materials from 1-3 leftover. B5 was constructed about 3 hours (traveling time in real-space) from the location of B4.
How did the Shadows know about Babylon 4?
Well, if the Minbari had records of B4's visual look, given that the Shadows are advanced, would they not also have the potential to recognize it for what it was once it was nearing completion from their own records?
Did the Minbari agree to help fund B5 because they knew about B4?
No, because if you remember, even Delenn didn't know where B4 came from until she came to B5, well after completion.
Why don't the Minbari have many records of the last war?
It was also a very devastating war, and one of their mistakes was that there were those who were entrusted to keep the past, sort of a more advanced version of storytellers, who put all their data in one basket, as it were...very possessive and jurisdictional. When they and that center of data were taken out, a lot was lost. One drawback of a very rigid and structued society.
Did B4 have more firepower than B5?
Yeah, B4 had more firepower, and it had one thing B5 doesn't...engines that can move it forward if necessary.
jms on why the station was blown up.
Why scuttle the station?
There are weapons systems on board that station, computer systems, other stuff that would be too much of a hassle to dig out, and you don't want squatters setting up residence there, or raiding the place for what they can get, and maintaining a military presence there to prevent it would be expensive. With trade no longer coming through, the money to keep the station operating was gone.
Why not send it into Epsilon 3's atmosphere?
I don't see how sending a 5 mile long station plummeting into the atmosphere of Epsilon 3 is any more or less real than blowing it up in space, where salvage crews can come in and take the metal. We already *saw* bits of the debris burning up in the atmospher in the second shot... and as for sending the whole thing hurtling down, well, I think Draal might have a thing or two to say about that....
Why not tow it somewhere else?
You couldn't tow something as massive as a 5 mile long station like this through hyperspace; it'd tear apart.
It can be moved, sure, but can it *survive* the move? Also, you'd have to bring B5 through a jump point in order to bring it anywhere, and the stresses involved in that would be hideous.
Kizarvexis
I wonder if JMS knew about the happy coincidence of saying "B4" phonetically? :idea: I've always especially liked that, as if the station knew something that the universe only found out later (or more correctly before!). :wink:
I just thought of a novel way to get rid of a large station such as B5. As JMS has said, towing a five mile long station through a jumpgate would be hard. Consider instead that you might be able to trigger the gate sequence while towing the jump gate sections over and around the station :idea:. It has never been stated that the jumpgate has to be in a station keeping position in order to function, so this might be a possible option for "clean" disposal. Then just let the station drift off the beacon. Thus, a burial at sea (the hyper-sea of course).
Also, the fact that the stress would damage the station could also be used in venting the atmosphere and making the station useless in hyperspace. You wouldn't have all of that scrap then becoming a real navigation hazard in the Epsilon system because there wouldn't be any scrap left in normal space.
I think that it was said in Third Space that the artifact was placing the jump gate sections at their limit, so if we knew what the maximum width of the artifact was, we could compare that dimension to the B5 width. Lacking that, you can go right now to http://www.merzo.net/ (the ten meters per pixel page) and drag the Cortez over the B5 station graphic. If you stripped off the solar panels of B5, the Cortez is about the same width as Babylon 5. Although the Cortez can no doubt make its own jump point, it is shown coming through the Epsilon 3 jumpgate in the series. Thus, removing the B5 solar panels allows the station to be disposed of cleanly. The way that hyperspace works, it would be thought that the station would just basically "get lost". Personnaly, I like the term Flying Zocalo. :lol:
As an additional consideration, this would allow the station to become a "flying Dutchman" in hyperspace- (see Flying Zocalo above). This would be an interesting possibility for RPG sessions or future books. Too bad that JMS went for the "viking funeral" and fireworks ending, as good (and solemn) as that was. Besides, maybe the builders of B5 would later hear that the station had not broken up at all, but held together, maybe to be found in a million years...
A third option of course would be to just "push" the station into a closing vector with the Epsilon sun. :twisted:
I just thought of a novel way to get rid of a large station such as B5. As JMS has said, towing a five mile long station through a jumpgate would be hard. Consider instead that you might be able to trigger the gate sequence while towing the jump gate sections over and around the station :idea:. It has never been stated that the jumpgate has to be in a station keeping position in order to function, so this might be a possible option for "clean" disposal. Then just let the station drift off the beacon. Thus, a burial at sea (the hyper-sea of course).
Also, the fact that the stress would damage the station could also be used in venting the atmosphere and making the station useless in hyperspace. You wouldn't have all of that scrap then becoming a real navigation hazard in the Epsilon system because there wouldn't be any scrap left in normal space.
I think that it was said in Third Space that the artifact was placing the jump gate sections at their limit, so if we knew what the maximum width of the artifact was, we could compare that dimension to the B5 width. Lacking that, you can go right now to http://www.merzo.net/ (the ten meters per pixel page) and drag the Cortez over the B5 station graphic. If you stripped off the solar panels of B5, the Cortez is about the same width as Babylon 5. Although the Cortez can no doubt make its own jump point, it is shown coming through the Epsilon 3 jumpgate in the series. Thus, removing the B5 solar panels allows the station to be disposed of cleanly. The way that hyperspace works, it would be thought that the station would just basically "get lost". Personnaly, I like the term Flying Zocalo. :lol:
As an additional consideration, this would allow the station to become a "flying Dutchman" in hyperspace- (see Flying Zocalo above). This would be an interesting possibility for RPG sessions or future books. Too bad that JMS went for the "viking funeral" and fireworks ending, as good (and solemn) as that was. Besides, maybe the builders of B5 would later hear that the station had not broken up at all, but held together, maybe to be found in a million years...
A third option of course would be to just "push" the station into a closing vector with the Epsilon sun. :twisted:
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Kizarvexis said:
It did you know, just not in a very serviceable state, have you read "In Valen's name"?
LBH
Kizarvexis
Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
Everything in bold and my handle are things I wrote. The B4 item you quoted was written by jms, who, IIRC, also wrote "In Valen's Name".
Kizarvexis
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Well even JMS has admitted he screwed a couple of things up in IVT :lol:
LBH
LBH
