Atlantean Race stats

Yogah of Yag

Mongoose
Has there been any attempt or thought into coming up with a stat block for the race of ancient Atlanteans?
Judging by some sources the Atlanteans might not have been of the size-class "medium", but perhaps "large", and would require special attention in the creation of their stats.
Are there other attributes which one must consider, e.g. greater STR, INT, or other ability score adjustments?
Your collective ponderings are most welcome.
 
Trodax said:
What's the basis for them being so much larger than other men?

My primary source is the film CtB, supplemented by pieces of information gleaned from the Conan Corpus. In the film Conan enters the what he thinks is the dwelling of Crom, but is, in fact, the tomb of of some long-departed king or chieftain of the Atlanteans, accompanied by his retainers or servants who were sacrificed in order to be his retinue in the Afterlife. Given the size of the king/chieftain's general frame and especially his skeletal hand resting upon the pommel, he must necessarily be larger than even the Cimmerian. Conan's meeting with the subterranean giant was forshadowed by Conan's Father in the very beginning of the film, who said "Once giants lived in the earth."

However, if the Cimmerians were regarded as the "pure" bloodline-descendants of the Atlanteans, why the difference in stature between the Atlantean king and Conan?


"North of Aquilonia, the western-most Hyborian kingdom, are the Cimmerians, ferocious savages, untamed by the invaders, but advancing rapidly because of contact with them; they are the descendants of the Atlanteans..."

and...

"But the barbarians have kept their bloodstream pure; the Cimmerians are tall and powerful, with dark hair and blue or grey eyes."

---both from REH, "The Hyborian Age"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As a side-note: the hand-and-half Atlantean Sword (reputedly 38 7/8 inches in length [98.7425cm]) would have been but a shortsword to the Atlantean.
 
Yogah of Yag said:
My primary source is the film CtB, supplemented by pieces of information gleaned from the Conan Corpus.
While CtB is a decent enough film, not all of it meshes seamlessly with REH's original work.

King Kull was an Atlantean, and in The Shadow Kingdom (which is the only Kull story I've read), he is described as a large, powerful warrior (much like Conan), but not a giant.

Yogah of Yag said:
"North of Aquilonia, the western-most Hyborian kingdom, are the Cimmerians, ferocious savages, untamed by the invaders, but advancing rapidly because of contact with them; they are the descendants of the Atlanteans..."

and...

"But the barbarians have kept their bloodstream pure; the Cimmerians are tall and powerful, with dark hair and blue or grey eyes."

---both from REH, "The Hyborian Age"
This to me suggests that the Atlanteans were indeed tall, strong men (sort of like Tolkiens Númenóreans, perhaps), but not that they were half-giants.

Mechanics-wise, I think having them be of Large size is to much, thats Man-Ape sized. Strength +2 might be appropriate, though.

Anyway, what else is known of the Atlanteans? Was their society barbaric or an advanced civilization?
 
The Atlanteans were barbarians even before the cataclysm. Afterwards, warfare with the picts caused them to devolve back into ape-men, then eventually they evolved back up to men becoming Cimmerians. All of this took 8-12 thousand years.
 
Check out the latest thread on Atlantis. Take a look at the Arcanum. Here is a brief quote out of the book:

"Humans are the most common and populous of the humanoid races, and are found throughout the known world. While the majority of humans tend to center around coastal cities, towns, and villages, scattered tribal groups and clans can be found living even in the furthest inland areas.

Humans often vary greatly in appearance, with no mean or average features being apparent with regard to members of this race. Skin coloration ranges from pale white to blue-black, while hair color ranges from white to yellow, red, brown, and black.

Size:
Male

Height: 4'6-8'
Weight: 80-300+ lbs.

Female

Height: 4'-6'4
Weight 70-200+ lbs."

The tallest humans are the Aesir and the Vanir which average over 7' tall.


HLD
 
The tallest humans are the Aesir and the Vanir which average over 7' tall.

That can't be right - Look at the 7' tall players in the NBA - your saying the Aesir and Vanir averaged that height? Maybe you meant 6'...
 
Strom said:
The tallest humans are the Aesir and the Vanir which average over 7' tall.

That can't be right - Look at the 7' tall players in the NBA - your saying the Aesir and Vanir averaged that height? Maybe you meant 6'...

When was the last time you saw a Aesir or a Vanirian slam dunk a ball? 8)

Keep in mind that these are stats for the ancestors of the Hyborian Aesir and Vanir. A major cataclysm and 3,000 years of evolution can really mess up the gene pool. It is believed by some that the the Nordheimers are related to the Frost Giants. We are talking Atlantis not Hyboria. Even in Hyborian standards, the Aesir and the Vanir produce the tallest humans.
 
The novelisation does not refer to the giant's race and I don't remember the movie giving him a race either. More than likely, he stumbled on the tomb of one of the Giant-Kings who ruled Stygia before the Stygians.
 
I assumed that the skeleton in the CtB tomb was Atlantean because on the wall behind the throne was a shield(?) very clearly displaying an erupting volcano (i.e. the doomed isle of Atlantis) with waves rising up to swallow it. This art-design has stylistic ties to the artwork on the bronze guard and pommel of the Atlantean sword.

Furthermore the "glyph" which marks the entrance to the tomb is nearly the same as a similar device on the guard of the so-called Atlantean Sword (somewhat resembling a circle or ring resting upon a "stand" or "base").
 
Yogah of Yag said:
I assumed that the skeleton in the CtB tomb was Atlantean because on the wall behind the throne was a shield(?) very clearly displaying an erupting volcano (i.e. the doomed isle of Atlantis) with waves rising up to swallow it.

I watched the scene a few minutes ago, but couldn't see a shield that dsiplays such a scene.
 
While I haven't read any of the Kull stories in a few years, I think Kull was an Atlantean barbarian who left his people and became King of Valusia. While he was tall like Conan, he wasn't a giant. The Island empire had sunk into the waves millenia before his birth.

As for the movie "Conan the Barbarian", considering the great lengths to which they ignored the stories that were written to suit their fancies, I'd hardly use the movie to make something canon (Thulsa Doom was a Kull villain, not a Conan villain, for example, changing Valeria from a pirate in Red Nails to a thief who dies, etc.). John Milius made the movie thinking nordic and viking because of his love of vikings, which is his surfer name. The movie looks cool, but has very little to do with the Conan character written about in the 50 years before the movie was made. I love the movie, but ignore it as far as the character of Conan or the rpg are concerned. :wink:
 
As for the stats thing what do you think about:

+2 Str (they were at least as strong as Cimmerians, though a +4 seems too much)

No other ability modifiers. I know it is not balanced, but who cares. Also, keep on mind the Cimmerians are the somewhat devolved heirs to their tradition, hence their -2 Int which Atlanteans shouldn´t get.

In other respects, perhaps I would model them after Hyborians (they ended up being the most succesful culture of their age). This would mean all classes would be favoured for them. Also they would get the Adaptable SQ.

Making them Large... I dont´t know. I think Cimmerians would be quite similar to them in physical terms, hence my take on it (they are not Large). Giant Kings would be other matter, but they were not Atlantean in origin if I recall correctly.
 
Maximo said:
As for the stats thing what do you think about:

+2 Str (they were at least as strong as Cimmerians, though a +4 seems too much)

No other ability modifiers. I know it is not balanced, but who cares. Also, keep on mind the Cimmerians are the somewhat devolved heirs to their tradition, hence their -2 Int which Atlanteans shouldn´t get.

In other respects, perhaps I would model them after Hyborians (they ended up being the most succesful culture of their age). This would mean all classes would be favoured for them. Also they would get the Adaptable SQ.

Making them Large... I dont´t know. I think Cimmerians would be quite similar to them in physical terms, hence my take on it (they are not Large). Giant Kings would be other matter, but they were not Atlantean in origin if I recall correctly.

Thanks, Maximo. Great ideas! 8)
Howard was fond of the idea of "de-evolution." A peculiar idea, no doubt, but I don't believe that the Cimmerians had regressed to the point of being apes(!). That is, I am sure, hyperbole.
 
Yogah of Yag wrote:
Howard was fond of the idea of "de-evolution."

Can't blame the man, just switch on your TV and look at the news. :lol:
Hope it is not a sign of mankind going to become apes :shock:
 
Maximo said:
Yogah of Yag wrote:
Howard was fond of the idea of "de-evolution."

Can't blame the man, just switch on your TV and look at the news. :lol:
Hope it is not a sign of mankind going to become apes :shock:
True enough, along those lines why not look at Jerry Srpinger's show! :lol:
 
Yogah of Yag said:
Howard was fond of the idea of "de-evolution."
Yeah, the evolutionary state of men seems to go up and down quite a lot over time (and at an astonishing rate!).

As to the stats... I don't really see the pre-cataclysmic age as a Golden Age, or the Atlanteans as "better" men than todays Cimmerians. Therefore, I'd probably put them at a comparable (balanced) level with the normal races. Perhaps same stats as Cimmerians, but drop the environmental bonuses (and the Climb bonus) and add something else (maybe a bonus to Sailing, or Adaptable, I dunno). As I said above, I'd definitely not make them Large.
 
VincentDarlage said:
The novelisation does not refer to the giant's race and I don't remember the movie giving him a race either. More than likely, he stumbled on the tomb of one of the Giant-Kings who ruled Stygia before the Stygians.

The soundtrack, by Basil P., titles the track where Conan enters the mound while fleeing from the wolves as "Atlantean Sword" which one could speculate the screenwriters intended to make the point that this tomb was dedicated to a possibly Atlantean or decendent thereof.

Conan stating Crom when the hand moves also leads some to think that Conan might even think the dead king is Crom. A couple buddies argued this to me but personally I think he is just swearing after getting the crap startled out of him.

Even so we all know that as great as the movie is (I think anyway) it is not canon however remember the short story that REH wrote (I forget the name) where Conan goes to the ruined city of Larsha and and fights the giant skeletons...I beleive they had swords and Conan ends up in Zamora along with Subitai shortly there after so...
 
Actually now that I think about it I am not even sure if REH wrote that story and I read it in one of my old paperback written by Carter, Decamp etc... Vincent and insight on who wrote that story.

By the way guys I love these boards and some of the ideas you post. I am going to try and start being more active on the board so talk to you guys soon.
 
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