Atlantean edition vs. 1st. edition

Now...fortified with thews...


The optional rule is this: If you use the optional weapon breakage rule, if you roll to hit and get exactly the opponent's total Parry Defense, proceed as if you'd made a successfulk Sunder against thier weapon.

Still only against weapons and only when the total to hit is equal exactly to the opponent total Parry.
Thanks Sutek! Titanic work you're doing. Well, I bought the 1st version a couple of weeks ago cause I didn't knew anything about the AE, the thing is that my local store didn't bring new editions cause the older version of the core book was there for a long time, so I bought it without knowing about the AE.

I read your updates and so far I think that my old version would be fine. But I'm worried about combat, any major changes there? BTW, do you have a word doc, pdf or something? Thanks in advance!
Hey Vincent, there's a pdf that Mongoose released, about 4 pages, at this site:

I've read various people saying they were in the process of releasing a comprehensive errata/conversion, but I don't know if anyone ever did it. I never tried, we've been using the AE since it came out.
I will compile a PDF and a Word document out of all of this when it's finished, but that'll be a while. The Combat section is the one I'm working on next, but I've had so little free time to focus on it. My intention is to get to it this weekend, but the crucial bits that have changed are in the document you can download from the main Mongoose Conan RPG site. Basically, "DV" and "DEX bonus" is now refered to in every instance as "Parry and Dodge". Simplifies thing for this system. I'm sure ther eare lots of minor things, but that's the biggie. There's also clarification of the 5' Step and some other stuff that really matter for combat situations, but you can get all of that from the Mongoose document.

Thanks, and stay tuned...

  • All instances of Defense Value/DV: In every case, this terminology has changed to instead use the terms Parry Defense and Dodge Defense. There is no longer any reference to combatant’s losing DEX bonus in combat as they simply lose their Parry or Dodge bonuses and revert to Base Defense Now, if an opponent cannot Parry or Dodge then strikes only have to beat the Base Defense. (10+Size modifier).
  • Damage: Several instances correcting syntax or typos occur.
    o First paragraph, first sentence:

    When your attack succeeds, you deal damage, some or all of which may be negated by your opponent’s armor

    o Damage considerations, #2, second sentence:

    Some bows are made with particular Strength ratings, which affect how much of your Strength modifier you can apply to the damage result. See the equipment list for details.

    o Damage considerations, #3: Fraction should read “11/2”
  • Defense value:
    o The sub-section is now simply “Defense” to reflect that there are now more than a single DV.
    o All references should be plural now, as in “Defense Values” since the updated rules differentiate between Base, Parry and Dodge bonus rather than a single Defense Value.
    o The equations for determining DVs are clarified as follows:

    · Base Defense = 10 + Size Modifier

    · Dodge Defense = Base Defense + Dexterity Bonus + Dodge Bonus

    · Parry Defense = Base Defense + Dexterity Bonus + Parry Bonus

    o Base Defense is always 10 for medium size characters.
    o A huge amount of effort has been made to clarify bonuses to Defense. Essentially everything after the first paragraph under “Defense value” has been rewritten through to the portion describing “Other modifiers”. The following paragraphs occur between the equations for the different types of Defense and the sub-section on Dodging:

    Some modifiers lower your Dodge or Parry defense. For example, if you are surrounded on all sides and cannot dodge effectively, you suffer a –2 penalty to Dodge Defense. Such modifiers only affest the kind of defense they refer to. For example, if you were surrounded on all sides and suffering a –2 penalty to Dodge Defense, your Parry Defense would not be affected.

    A modifier that simply affects your ‘Defense’ (without specifying Dodge or Parry) is added no matter what kind of Defense you are using and also applies when you cannot dodge or parry. For example, when charging you suffer a –2 penalty to Defense.

    If you ever have a Dexterity penalty rather than a bonus, then you apply this penalty to your Defense, not just your Dodge Defense. For example, a Medium-size character whose Dexterity has been reduced to 5 by poison would apply a –3 penalty to his Defense. A sleeping or unconscious character has an effective Dexterity of zero, as he is not moving at all, so he has a –5 penalty to his Defense.

    Whenever a character has a chance to defend himself, he must declare whether he is dodging or parrying his enemies. Changing between the two modes of defense is a free action. It can be done each time the character is attacked if desired but must be done before the opponent makes his attack roll. The Dodging and Parrying sections, below, explain how to calculate the Parry and Dodge bonuses.

    Note that armor limits your Dexterity bonus, so if you are wearing armor, you might not be able to apply your whole Dexterity bonus to your Dodge Defense.

    Sometimes you cannot dodge or parry at all. If you cannot react to a blow, such as when an opponent takes you by surprise and you are ‘flat-footed’, then you can use neither Dodge Defense nor Parry Defense. Equally, if you cannot move freely, then defending yourself is also impossible; a character is unable to use either his Dodge Defense or Parry Defense when he is clinging for life on the edge of a mile-high cliff-top. Under these circumstances, you are vulnerable to sneak attacks.

    o Other modifiers, second entry:

    Equipment: You can parry more efficiently with a shield than with a weapon, as it is designed to block damage. Shields give you a bonus to your Parry Defense.

    o Other modifiers, third entry:

    Dodge bonuses: Some other bonuses represent actively avoiding blows. These bonuses are called dodge bonuses. Wearing armor does not limit these bonuses the way it limits Dexterity bonus to Dodge Defense. Unlike most sorts of bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other. Dodge bonuses only apply to a character’s Dodge Defense. They do not add to the character’s Parry Defense at all. If you are in a situation where you cannot dodge, then your dodge bonuses do not apply.

    o The last paragraph in the sub-section is now deleted altogether.
  • Dodging:
    o The equation for calculating dodge bonus is updated:
    · Dodge Bonus = base dodge bonus + additional dodge bonuses
  • Parrying:
    o The equation for calculating dodge bonus is updated:
    · Parry Bonus = base parry bonus + additional parry bonuses
    o Three new paragraphs have been written to clarify Parrying, and occur as paragraphs 2 through 3 of this sub-section as follows:

    A parrying character must wield a weapon, shield or at the very least an object of some kind in order to fend off his opponents’ blows effectively. It is possible to deflect blows without having an item in your hands; however, if a character is completely unarmed he receives a –4 penalty to his Parry Defense. Characters with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat count as armed for the purpose of using Parry Defense.

    If a character attempts to parry with a weapon with which he is not proficient, or with an improvised weapon such as a bar stool or length of firewood, he suffers a –1 penalty to his Parry Defense. A character with the Versatility ability from the barbarian class suffers no penalty under such circumstances, as barbarians are so adept with improvised weapons. The Games Master is at liberty to apply additional bonuses to a character’s Parry Defense when he uses especially suitable or obstructive improvised blocking weapons.

    If you are using a reach weapon, you can parry an adjacent attacker with it even if you would not be able to attack him.

  • Touch attacks and flat-footed defense values:
    o The entire entry is changed and updated as follows:

    A ‘touch attack’ is an attack in which the assailant only needs to make physical contact with some part of the target in order to attack successfully. Many spells, for example, are delivered with touch attacks. It is not necessary to calculate separate Defense values for use against touch attacks or when caught flat-footed. Touch attacks can only be dodged, rather than parried, as a touch that connects with a weapon or shield will deliver the attack. Thus, a character’s Dodge Defense is always used against a touch attack.

    When characters are caught flat-footed, the cannot dodge or parry, so they can use neither their Dodge Defense nor their Parry Defense. They have not yet gathered their wits and so cannot defend themselves actively, though they are still far from being sitting ducks. They must use their Base Defense, which will always be 10, assuming their size is Medium. The Uncanny Dodge class feature and Reflexive Parry feat allow flat-footed characters to defend themselves with Dodge Defense and Parry Defense respectively.

  • Saving throws:
    o The headings are altered so as to fit Saving throw Types, Saving throw Difficulty Class and Automatic Failures and Successes under the sub-section heading, “Saving Throws”.
    o The equation for Base Saving throw modifier is clarified:

    · Base saving throw modifier = base saving throw bonus + ability modifier + relevant feats or bonuses
  • Initiative:
    o The second sentence of the first paragraph under “Initiative checks has an added parenthetical:

    Each character applies his Dexterity modifier and Reflex saving throw modifier to the roll. (This is the base Reflex saving throw modifier from the character’s class. You do not add your Dexterity modifier twice!)
  • Flat-footed:
    o The second and third sentences have been rewritten to reflect the mechanic of two Defense values in relation to being flat footed and relevant feats:

    [/size=9]You cannot dodge or parry while flat-footed. Some classes have the Uncanny Dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to dodge while being flat-footed.[/size]
  • Surprise:
    o The headings are altered so as to fit Determining Awareness, The Surprise Round and Unaware Combatants under the sub-section heading, “Surprise”.
    o The second sentence of the Unaware Combatants entry is slightly rewritten to reflect the existence of Dodge/Parry:

    Unaware combatants are flat-footed because the have not acted yet, so they can neither dodge nor parry.
  • Attacks of Opportunity:
    o The headings are altered so as to fit Threatened Squares, Provoking an Attack of Opportunity and Making an Attack of Opportunity under the sub-section heading, “Attacks of Opportunity”.
  • Armor and Damage Reduction:
    o The headings are altered so as to fit Optional Rule: Minimum Damage, Armor Piercing, Multiple Shots and Critical Hits and Armor Damage and Repair under the sub-section heading, “Armor and Damage Reduction”.
    o A new sub-section is included just prior to the Armor Piercing sub-section as follows:

    Optional Rule: Minimum Damage:
    Although the stories show how phenomenally effective armor can be at protecting you from damage, some Games Masters will prefer to have armor-wearing characters be a little more vulnerable, so that characters cannot stroll blithely through enemy armies without a single scratch. Even if you are left without any major traumas, those bumps, bruises and minor concussions all add up.

    If damage reduction from arm or reduces the damage of a successful attack to less than 1, a successful hit still deals 1 point of non-lethal damage. (If the Games Master prefers, this damage can be lethal damage.) Primitive weapons still break if they strike ineffectively against metal armored characters, that is, if the armor’s DR reduces the primitive weapon’s damage to 0 before the minimum damage rule is applied.

  • Finesse:
    o The heading is altered so as to fit Finesse and Armor under the sub-section heading, “Finesse”.
    o The following sentence is added to the fourth paragraph dealing with Finesse and Ranged Weapons:

    The sole exception is when a character has the Ranged Finesse feat.
Combat: Actions in Combat
  • Some clarification is given to the Full-Round Action entry in that a sentence is added saying, “You can also perform free actions; see below.
    o Standard Actions: This section is now much more organized. Attack, Cast a Spell, Use Special Ability, Total Defense, Start/Complete Full-Round Action and Fighting on the Move are all broad sub-sections under the main Standard Actions header. Further, each has it’s own sub-headings as well.
    * Attack: The headings are altered so as to fit Melee Attacks, Unarmed Attacks, Ranged Attacks, Attack Rolls, Automatic Misses and Hits, Damage Rolls, Multiple Attacks, Shooting or Throwing into a Melee, Fighting Defensively and Critical Hits under the sub-section heading, “Attack”.
    ** Attack Rolls: The final paragraph of the section has been expanded as follows:

    An attack roll must equal or exceed a target’s Dodge Defense or Parry Defense in order to score a hit, depending on which the target is using to defend himself. If the target cannot dodge or parry, then the attack roll only needs to exceed the target’s Base Defense.

    > Damage Rolls: The paragraph has been slightly modified as follows:

    If the attack roll result equals or exceeds the target’s chosen Defense, the attack hits. Roll the appropriate damage for your weapon and reduce the damage by the damage reduction of the target, after any modification for Armor Piercing. Damage is deducted from the target’s hit points.

    > Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action: This is now it’s own entry but all the rules are the same.
    > Critical Hits: The last exception regarding Spells and Critical Hits is omitted. All aspects of spell casting are handled in the next broad section, “Cast a Spell.”

    * Cast a Spell: The headings are organized now so that Spell Components, Concentration, Concentrating to Maintain a Spell, Casting Time, Attacks of Opportunity, Casting on the Defensive, Touch Spells in Combat and Dismiss a Spell are all broad sub-sections under the “Cast a Spell” header, consolidating all spell related combat rules in one area of the book. The main alteration is the add the Components and Concentration portions of Spell Combat to the Combat section, while still including more detailed information about them in the Sorcery chapter later. However, this part of the Combat chapter is essentially very re-organized and has enough new material to warrant much of it being duplicated here for completeness and simplicity.

    Cast A Spell
    Most Spells require 1 standard action to cast. You can cast such a spell either before or after you take a move action.

    # Note: You can still dodge while casting. You can also parry, unless the spell has a somatic (S) component.

    Spell Components
    To cast a spell with a verbal (V) component, your character must speak in a firm voice. If you are gagged or otherwise prevented from speaking (such as by being pinned in a grapple) then you cannot cast a spell with a verbal (V) component. A sorcerer who has been deafened has a 20% chance to spoil any spell he tries to cast if that spell has a verbal component.

    To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, you must gesture freely with at least one hand. You cannot cast a spell of this type while bound, grappling, or with both your hands full or occupied.

    To cast a spell with a material (M) or focus (F) component, you have to have the proper materials, as described by the spell. Unless these materials are elaborate, preparing these materials is a free action. For material components and foci whose costs are not listed, you can assume that you have them if you have your spell component pouch.

    Some spells have an experience point (XP) component and entail an experience point cost to you. No spell can restore the lost XP. You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level, so you cannot cast the spell unless you have enough XP to spare. However, you may, on gaining enough XP to achieve a new level, immediately spend the XP on casting the spell rather than keeping it to advance a level. The XP are expended when you cast the spell, whether or not the casting succeeds.

    You must concentrate to cast a spell. If you cannot concentrate, you cannot cast a spell. If you start casting a spell but something interferes with your concentration, you must make a Concentration Check or lose the spell. The check’s DC depends on what is threatening your concentration; see the Concentration skill. If you fail, the spell disperses with no effect and you lose the PP that would have powered the spell.

    Concentrating to Maintain a Spell
    Some spells require continued concentration to keep them going. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke and attack of opportunity. Anything tat could break your concentration when casting a spell can keep you from concentrating to maintain a spell. If your concentration breaks, the spell ends.

    Casting Time
    - entry identical -

    Attacks of Opportunity
    - entry identical -

    Casting on the Defensive
    - entry identical -

    Touch Spells in Combat
    # Touch Attacks: […] Your opponent can only attempt to defend against a touch attack with his Dodge Defense, as parrying does not work against touch attacks.

    Dismiss a Spell
    - entry identical -

    * Use Special Ability: Only the entries for Supernatural Abilities and Extraordinary Abilities remain. The entries for Spell-like Abilities and Using a Spell-like Ability on the Defensive are omitted.
    * Total Defense: The +4 gained applies to Defense.

    o Move Actions:
    * Draw or Sheath a Weapon: References to wands and shuriken are removed.

    o Full-round Actions: Cast a Spell is now included as a sub-section between Full-Attack and Use Special Ability sub-sections.
    * Full Attack; Fighting Defensively as a Full-round Action: This provides a +2 bonus to Defense, either Dodge or Parry, as well as incurring the -4 penalty to all attacks.
    * Cast a Spell: This sub-section is new in the Atlantean edition:

    Cast A Spell
    A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you begin casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed. A spell that takes 1 minute to cast comes into effect just before your turn 1 minute later; for each of those 10 rounds, you are casting a spell as a full-round action. These actions must be consecutive and uninterrupted, or the spell automatically fails.

    When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the invocations, gestures, and concentration from one round to just before your turn in the next round at least. If you lose concentration after starting the spell and before it is complete, the spell fails and you lose the PP.

    You only p-rovoke attacks of opportunity when you begin casting a spell, even though you might continue casting for at least one full round. While casting a spell, you do not threaten and squares around you. This action is other wise identical to the cast a spell action described under Standard Actions.

    * Run: Instead of losing Dexterity bonus to DV, which is now erroneous, you instead cannot Dodge or Parry while running. If you have the Run feat, you can only Dodge, not Parry.

    * Free Actions: - no changes –
    o Miscellaneous Actions: - no changes –
Sutek said:
I will compile a PDF and a Word document out of all of this when it's finished, but that'll be a while.

It's been close to a year since this thread has been updated. Are you still planning on doing more work on this project, Sutek? Your notes have been immensely helpful, and I'd definitely like to see this completed. Please?
Well, that's pretty much all the rules differences. There may be changes to the descriptiors of the Spells and to the articles that pertain to Hyboria and whatnot, but I don't recall them as being significant.

What I can do is take all of this and make it a single word document. That'd cut down on having to scroll and page switch and all that.

Is there anything specific that you're needing clarification on?
Sutek said:
Is there anything specific that you're needing clarification on?

Not in particular, but the single document you described would definitely be handy. I use the first printing of the rulebook as a table copy for my group, and it'd be nice having all the changes and corrections in one place (kind of like the complete errata Mongoose failed to deliver). Thanks!