Armwrestling and snakes! - opposed rolls?

[mthomason]

That was pure speculation on my part. There may not be Potencies for poison in MRQ.

I just checked after you mentioned it, there are

 

[Archer]

But roll what? STR x5%?

Tests directly against characteristics aren't covered specifically (unless I've missed it in skimming through), so it looks like a GM decision to me. Newbies would probably test directly against STR because there's nothing in the rules to suggest otherwise, and RQ vets will probably go for STR x5% (or possibly a smaller multiplier if you armwrestle something with STR>20) because it's what they're used to. I'd say as long as the GM came up with something fair that gave the character with the greater STR a greater chance of winning then I'd be happy.

If it was something big in my campaign I'd probably give characters a new "arm wrestling" skill based on something like (2xSTR)+CON (representing the effect of CON on being able to stay in a long contest if necessary)

Hmm, this is a bad thing in my opinion. If the rules are not to include guidelines on such basic things.

Sure, an Armwrestling skill makes sense. But that would be covered under Athletics.
The danger I see here is that we will have an insane amount of skills in the end; Lift a heavy object skill, Break down the door skill, Break chains skill, etc.

Though it could also be argued that these are uses of the Athletics skill.

 

[mthomason]

Hmm, this is a bad thing in my opinion. If the rules are not to include guidelines on such basic things.

Sure, an Armwrestling skill makes sense. But that would be covered under Athletics.
The danger I see here is that we will have an insane amount of skills in the end; Lift a heavy object skill, Break down the door skill, Break chains skill, etc.

Though it could also be argued that these are uses of the Athletics skill.

Yup, but like I said I'd only use it if Armwrestling became something big in the campaign (I'd likewise add a Jousting skill for a campaign that centered around the characters being competitive jousting knights, although to be honest it's unlikely I'd want to run such a campaign...). Otherwise I'd use STR x convenientmultiplier%.
I wouldn't use athletics because I'd argue that CON is more relevant than DEX in this particular instance (now, Athletics for wrestling, yes!)

You're right however that tests against characteristics ought to be included in there... I shall re-read and await the companion before passing judgement

 

[The Greek]

Example;
Two STR 10 character armwrestle. How is this handled as an opposed roll?

Both characters roll.

If only one succeeds, they won
If both succeed, whoever rolled the highest wins
If both fail, whoever rolled the lowest wins

But roll what? STR x5%?

Athletics skill

 

[Archer]

Sorry, read what you wrote to fast, missed that part about it being a big part.

I am now very curious on seeing the rulebook, since I begin to get the impression that it is lacking in more than one aspect. I find it very peculiar that there are no guidelines on how to handle different situations, especially if they are not covered by a skill.

 

[HyrumOWC]

But roll what? STR x5%?

Tests directly against characteristics aren't covered specifically (unless I've missed it in skimming through), so it looks like a GM decision to me. Newbies would probably test directly against STR because there's nothing in the rules to suggest otherwise, and RQ vets will probably go for STR x5% (or possibly a smaller multiplier if you armwrestle something with STR>20) because it's what they're used to. I'd say as long as the GM came up with something fair that gave the character with the greater STR a greater chance of winning then I'd be happy.

If it was something big in my campaign I'd probably give characters a new "arm wrestling" skill based on something like (2xSTR)+CON (representing the effect of CON on being able to stay in a long contest if necessary)

Hmm, this is a bad thing in my opinion. If the rules are not to include guidelines on such basic things.

Sure, an Armwrestling skill makes sense. But that would be covered under Athletics.
The danger I see here is that we will have an insane amount of skills in the end; Lift a heavy object skill, Break down the door skill, Break chains skill, etc.

Though it could also be argued that these are uses of the Athletics skill.

The Athletics Skill covers a lot, including "Brute Force", which is used for breaking things, carrying things, etc. It uses Str + Siz instead of Str + Dex.

Hyrum.

 

[Mikko Leho]

I am now very curious on seeing the rulebook, since I begin to get the impression that it is lacking in more than one aspect. I find it very peculiar that there are no guidelines on how to handle different situations, especially if they are not covered by a skill.

I got the impression that everything is covered by skills. There are no rolls against attributes. If something appears not to be covered by a certain skill, use the one that most resembles the situation at hand. Arm wrestling would use Athletics.

 

[mthomason]

I find it very peculiar that there are no guidelines on how to handle different situations, especially if they are not covered by a skill.

Well to be fair it says that the GM should decide which skill to use when something does not fall precisely beneath an existing skill.

I (and I'm guessing a lot of GMs) would just ignore the rulebook in this particular case and say you can indeed have a test directly against a characteristic when there is no real "skill" involved.

 

[Archer]

So, basically, the system has nothing else than a Skill resolution system to handle situations. While there are no obvious flaws with this at the moment, I am sure there will be some situation in which it becomes a problem.

 

[mthomason]

The Athletics Skill covers a lot, including "Brute Force", which is used for breaking things, carrying things, etc. It uses Str + Siz instead of Str + Dex.

Now, had I actually bothered reading the description of the skill I'd have agreed with that from the start

It does seem a little confusing though that a skill can use characteristics other than those listed against it, and it seems something a lot of people could miss - personally I read the skills table, saw "STR+DEX", and saw no reason to read any further.

 

[Enpeze]

The Athletics Skill covers a lot, including "Brute Force", which is used for breaking things, carrying things, etc. It uses Str + Siz instead of Str + Dex.

Hyrum.

This means a character with STR8 can uptrain a skill to carry or break things to perform better than a untrained hulk with STR18?

This means lifting a heavy barrel is handled with athletics instead of STR?

 

[mthomason]

This means a character with STR8 can uptrain a skill to carry or break things to perform better than a untrained hulk with STR18?

This means lifting a heavy barrel is handled with athletics instead of STR?

Unless like me you ignore that part of the rulebook, it appears so

Then again, I'd like to know how many D20 GM's choose to ignore the encumberance rules and just rule that when someone was clearly carrying too much they were slowed down. If you don't like it, just ignore that rule - no RPG can be made to work the way everyone wants, so it's up to GMs to do a little surgery and house rule the bits they don't like.

 

[Archer]

It does seem a little confusing though that a skill can use characteristics other than those listed against it, and it seems something a lot of people could miss - personally I read the skills table, saw "STR+DEX", and saw no reason to read any further.

Oh! *CENSORED*
I would have hoped that MRQ would not have stepped into that minefield.

Such things have been the cause of endless debates with several of the groups I have GMed for.

The only solution I found that removed any doubts, was listing the skill several times on the character sheet, with specific use in parenthesis, so that the players learned from the beginning that each skill used different characteristics in different situations.

However, this lead to the problem of the character sheet being somewhat "messy", and sometimes a player forgot to include increases to a skill in all its aspects.

Is it only the Athletics skill that is afflicted with this phenomenon?
Because if it is, then I could perhaps write something like;
Athletics (Brute Force) STR + SIZ
Athletics (Speed) STR + DEX
Athletics (Stamina) STR + CON
On the character sheet.

 

[HyrumOWC]

It does seem a little confusing though that a skill can use characteristics other than those listed against it, and it seems something a lot of people could miss - personally I read the skills table, saw "STR+DEX", and saw no reason to read any further.

Oh! *CENSORED*
I would have hoped that MRQ would not have stepped into that minefield.

Such things have been the cause of endless debates with several of the groups I have GMed for.

The only solution I found that removed any doubts, was listing the skill several times on the character sheet, with specific use in parenthesis, so that the players learned from the beginning that each skill used different characteristics in different situations.

However, this lead to the problem of the character sheet being somewhat "messy", and sometimes a player forgot to include increases to a skill in all its aspects.

Is it only the Athletics skill that is afflicted with this phenomenon?
Because if it is, then I could perhaps write something like;
Athletics (Brute Force) STR + SIZ
Athletics (Speed) STR + DEX
Athletics (Stamina) STR + CON
On the character sheet.

A quick glance over the skill list makes it appear as if Athletics is the only one. Even Swimming (which uses Athletics) uses Str + Dex.

Hyrum.

 

[Archer]

I find it very peculiar that there are no guidelines on how to handle different situations, especially if they are not covered by a skill.

Well to be fair it says that the GM should decide which skill to use when something does not fall precisely beneath an existing skill.

I (and I'm guessing a lot of GMs) would just ignore the rulebook in this particular case and say you can indeed have a test directly against a characteristic when there is no real "skill" involved.

Of course the GM can always decide, that is not the point.
The point is that it would have been a good thing to include guidelines how to do things in that situation. Especially for beginning GMs. And obviously for those that are used to "doing things the old way".
And especially since it does not require more than a few lines of text

 

[mthomason]

Is it only the Athletics skill that is afflicted with this phenomenon?
Because if it is, then I could perhaps write something like;
Athletics (Brute Force) STR + SIZ
Athletics (Speed) STR + DEX
Athletics (Stamina) STR + CON
On the character sheet.

Looks that way, and good idea

 

[mthomason]

Of course the GM can always decide, that is not the point.
The point is that it would have been a good thing to include guidelines how to do things in that situation. Especially for beginning GMs. And obviously for those that are used to "doing things the old way".
And especially since it does not require more than a few lines of text

Well, again to be fair there are guidelines - the guidelines say find an appropriate skill and test against it... I just happen to disagree with those particular guidelines

 

[Archer]

A quick glance over the skill list makes it appear as if Athletics is the only one. Even Swimming (which uses Athletics) uses Str + Dex.

Hyrum.

Ah, thank you. That will solve one nightmare of facing my player groups with these rules.

 

[Archer]

Of course the GM can always decide, that is not the point.
The point is that it would have been a good thing to include guidelines how to do things in that situation. Especially for beginning GMs. And obviously for those that are used to "doing things the old way".
And especially since it does not require more than a few lines of text

Well, again to be fair there are guidelines - the guidelines say find an appropriate skill and test against it... I just happen to disagree with those particular guidelines

Ok, then it is all right

 

[Urox]

Is it only the Athletics skill that is afflicted with this phenomenon?
Because if it is, then I could perhaps write something like;
Athletics (Brute Force) STR + SIZ
Athletics (Speed) STR + DEX
Athletics (Stamina) STR + CON
On the character sheet.

Looks that way, and good idea

I think this runs afoul of the new XP system -- I guess you could raise all three sub-skills at the same time, but it seems kinda odd.