# Armwrestling and snakes! - opposed rolls?

Urox said:
mthomason said:
Archer said:
Is it only the Athletics skill that is afflicted with this phenomenon?
Because if it is, then I could perhaps write something like;
Athletics (Brute Force) STR + SIZ
Athletics (Speed) STR + DEX
Athletics (Stamina) STR + CON
On the character sheet.
Looks that way, and good idea
I think this runs afoul of the new XP system -- I guess you could raise all three sub-skills at the same time, but it seems kinda odd.

Well, that was basically the problem I had with it in the past. Players percieved it to be separate or sub-skills, while it in fact was one skill.
I am pondering how to make it apparant on the character sheet that it is in fact only one skill, and also to make it look good

Archer said:
I am pondering how to make it apparant on the character sheet that it is in fact only one skill, and also to make it look good

Athletics (STR+DEX)*

and at the bottom
* - note that Athletics uses STR+SIZ for Brute Force checks, and STR+CON for Stamina checks

mthomason said:
Archer said:
I am pondering how to make it apparant on the character sheet that it is in fact only one skill, and also to make it look good

Athletics (STR+DEX)*

and at the bottom
* - note that Athletics uses STR+SIZ for Brute Force checks, and STR+CON for Stamina checks

That was an nice suitable solution just because there is only one skill that has this

The problem is that my players are lazy, and I think they will not want to recalculate their % depending on which secondary characteristic are used, even if this is the most basic of mathematics.

I will however try this solution first, and see how it works out. Thank you for suggesting it.

Got another one

Code:
``````Athletics (STR+DEX):               Score
- Brute Force Mod(-DEX+SIZ):    modifier
- Stamina Mod(-DEX+CON):        modifier``````

And just list the modifiers underneath to make it faster to calculate on the fly.

mthomason said:
Got another one

Code:
``````Athletics (STR+DEX):               Score
- Brute Force Mod(-DEX+SIZ):    modifier
- Stamina Mod(-DEX+CON):        modifier``````

And just list the modifiers underneath to make it faster to calculate on the fly.

Also a good one.
But also one where you as well could already write the total score directly.

I think doing it this way would be better;
Code:
``````Athletics;
Brute Force    STR + SIZ     Score
Stamina         STR + CON    Score
Speed            STR + DEX    Score``````

That would make it absolutely clear that it is the same skill, but with different uses.

True - try a nice thick box around it to remind people it's all one skill.

Hardly seems "simplified" to me. Also, while there is some skill involved in Arm Wrestling, I do not like the idea that a STR 8 character with a high athletics skill will beat a Str 18 character with a low skill.

mthomason said:
True - try a nice thick box around it to remind people it's all one skill.

http://hem.legend.se/kammaren/openMat.asp?id=87

That is my current character sheet. Obvious enough?

Rurik said:
Hardly seems "simplified" to me. Also, while there is some skill involved in Arm Wrestling, I do not like the idea that a STR 8 character with a high athletics skill will beat a Str 18 character with a low skill.

Me neither, but this is the way it is done in the MRQ system. No STR vs STR tests of any kind, no Resistance table. Just skill vs skill.

Archer said:
http://hem.legend.se/kammaren/openMat.asp?id=87

Looks great to me

If it were me I'd stick it in a zip file along with the relevant licence stuff from Mongoose covering use of the SRD and the logo - when it becomes available - just to be 100% safe.

mthomason said:
Archer said:
http://hem.legend.se/kammaren/openMat.asp?id=87

Looks great to me

If it were me I'd stick it in a zip file along with the relevant licence stuff from Mongoose covering use of the SRD and the logo - when it becomes available - just to be 100% safe.

That I will certainly do.

Rurik said:
Hardly seems "simplified" to me. Also, while there is some skill involved in Arm Wrestling, I do not like the idea that a STR 8 character with a high athletics skill will beat a Str 18 character with a low skill.

Yeah. That is a problem when everything becomes skill based. THe same thing is going to happen with all the other resistance tests. A high level character is going to find it easier to make those saving throws vs posion too.

Its D&D folks.

atgxtg said:
Rurik said:
Hardly seems "simplified" to me. Also, while there is some skill involved in Arm Wrestling, I do not like the idea that a STR 8 character with a high athletics skill will beat a Str 18 character with a low skill.

Yeah. That is a problem when everything becomes skill based. THe same thing is going to happen with all the other resistance tests. A high level character is going to find it easier to make those saving throws vs posion too.

Its D&D folks.

At least it is a much better version of D&D

Archer said:
At least it is a much better version of D&D

I see no sword +10, +12 vs Dragons anywhere... I see a system that by not defining too much through statistics and equipment leaves the only possible place to define it being the character's background and personality, thus helping to push players into actually having them

mthomason said:
Archer said:
At least it is a much better version of D&D

I see no sword +10, +12 vs Dragons anywhere... I see a system that by not defining too much through statistics and equipment leaves the only possible place to define it being the character's background and personality, thus helping to push players into actually having them

I totally agree. The comment about it being a better version of D&D was in regards to experienced characters being better at surviving snake poison.

"I have traveled through the grey mists in the valleys of the high mountains, I have walked through the shadows cast by titans, and I have slain countless foes with my five foot of biting steel. And now I can finally take care of those pesky adders in the backyard without fearing their poison!!!" - Arwren the barbarian

(Just joking around, I have snake poison on my brain today).

Rurik said:
Hardly seems "simplified" to me. Also, while there is some skill involved in Arm Wrestling, I do not like the idea that a STR 8 character with a high athletics skill will beat a Str 18 character with a low skill.

Actually there is a lot of skill required in arm wrestling. I saw once on television how a woman beat on a row several men, who all were much bigger than her, in arm wrestling. After seeing that arm wrestling has been my favorite example how brute strength alone is not going to win skill. In fact I have come to prefer systems that put more weight on skills than attributes. If I were to design RQ, I would have turned strike ranks among other things into skill based procedure.

A simple "house rule" that would resolve the issue of oppossed rolls against snake venom and arm wrestling opponents:

At the beginning of play and immediately after character generation
cause all player characters to fall (neck deep) into a pit of broo
faeces. Humans and snakes will stay away thus negating the
neccessity for the above mentioned oppossed resolutions. I can
attest to this technique through personal experience.

THe thing is, many abilities are not skill based, but are primarily a factor of a fixed ability. For instance, the ability to lift a heavy object or to resist toxins.

Factoring skill is fine, but as it stands now a character with a 80% atheltics skill is going to be able to pick up and move things that a character with a 25 STR can't.

I don't see how this is an improvement.

Archer said:
atgxtg said:
Rurik said:
Hardly seems "simplified" to me. Also, while there is some skill involved in Arm Wrestling, I do not like the idea that a STR 8 character with a high athletics skill will beat a Str 18 character with a low skill.

Yeah. That is a problem when everything becomes skill based. THe same thing is going to happen with all the other resistance tests. A high level character is going to find it easier to make those saving throws vs posion too.

Its D&D folks.

At least it is a much better version of D&D

No, it isn't. THat's the sad part. THe day that I walk into my local gaming shop and state that I's rather play D&D than RuneQuest is when they are going to grab me and ask who I am and what I did to "atgxtg".

mthomason said:
Archer said:
At least it is a much better version of D&D

I see no sword +10, +12 vs Dragons anywhere... I see a system that by not defining too much through statistics and equipment leaves the only possible place to define it being the character's background and personality, thus helping to push players into actually having them

Wait for it. The RuneQuest Arms & Equipment guide is due out for Christmas. No, that isn't a joke.

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