Armor

[atgxtg]

The armor (armour? Two people divided by a common language) chart is coming along nicely.

That about half of the troublesome armors tunred out to be the same thing under a differernt name helped to clear up a lot of the overlap problems.

The last decisions seem to be how to handle brigadine. Basically, it was like jack (bezainted/ring/studded/lamellar/splited/banded are all very similar) but better as it had more metal/better coverage. THis seems to fit right in with the 5-6 point range. Great except that this armor was often worn over mail. It makes a lot of sense to allow it, but that does give great prtoection for the torso. Of course the ENC and skill penalty will be pretty hety too.

 

[atgxtg]

Here is my latest attempt at reapiring, expanding, and reorganizing the armuor table.

How does this look?





Now with correected data for complete suits, and amellar

 

[Durand Durand]

Looks good. I love the colour scheme.

[Edit] There seems to be a discrepancy in the % penalty in Scale and Mail. Individual parts seem to have the same penalty, though complete suits have lesser penalty ofr chain.

DD

 

[Sigtrygg]

That looks really great

(your brigandine typo has crept in again though )

 

[Icebrand]

Where's the lamellar armor?
I think im swiching plate for it...

 

[atgxtg]

Looks good. I love the colour scheme.

[Edit] There seems to be a discrepancy in the % penalty in Scale and Mail. Individual parts seem to have the same penalty, though complete suits have lesser penalty ofr chain.

DD

Ooops, that's what I get for using picture in picture while editing. I'll fix that in a minute.

 

[atgxtg]

Where's the lamellar armor?
I think im swiching plate for it...

Well, since bezainted, studded, ring, scale, bridadine, splited, banded, and lamellar all consist of attaching metal to a leather or cloth (quilt or even linen) backing, there really wan't room for it on the table. Especially with a 6 point range for AP values

If you want it for a campaign, just use the stats for brigadine.
I'll add that on to the chart.

 

[Icebrand]

Where's the lamellar armor?
I think im swiching plate for it...

Well, since bezainted, studded, ring, scale, bridadine, splited, banded, and lamellar all consist of attaching metal to a leather or cloth (quilt or even linen) backing, there really wan't room for it on the table. Especially with a 6 point range for AP values

If you want it for a campaign, just use the stats for brigadine.
I'll add that on to the chart.

Well, according to wikipedia, roman legionaries (heavy infantry) and praetorians used lorica segmentata (lamellar) while auxiliary forces used lorica hamata (mail) or lorica squamata (scale).

heres the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorica_segmentata

Basically, lamellar would offer better protection than either scale or mail (and i can see why). IMHO scale and mail should offer the same protection (mail beeing more comfortable and allowing more movement)

 

[atgxtg]

Where's the lamellar armor?
I think im swiching plate for it...

Well, since bezainted, studded, ring, scale, bridadine, splited, banded, and lamellar all consist of attaching metal to a leather or cloth (quilt or even linen) backing, there really wan't room for it on the table. Especially with a 6 point range for AP values

If you want it for a campaign, just use the stats for brigadine.
I'll add that on to the chart.

Well, according to wikipedia, roman legionaries (heavy infantry) and praetorians used lorica segmentata (lamellar) while auxiliary forces used lorica hamata (mail) or lorica squamata (scale).

heres the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorica_segmentata

Basically, lamellar would offer better protection than either scale or mail (and i can see why). IMHO scale and mail should offer the same protection (mail beeing more comfortable and allowing more movement)

Oh, I'm familar with Roman armor practices. The reasno why wiki lists the auxiliries are weaing mail is that the lorigca segmentata was not suitable for calavary troops, it is too stiff and doesn't allow the wearer to pivot from side to side, or bend forward easily, and most of the roman calvary were auxiliaries.

Peltats and other skirmishes rarely had metal armor.

There is little evidence to provde that lamellar was superior to mail. In part becuase we do know know which types of mail (rivited? cast links, 4 link patter? double mail?) we are comparing the lorica segmentata too, or even it we using the expensive version of the lorica with metal plates, or the cheaper version made of cuir bouilli.

With mail @ 5 and plate @6 there really insn't much "wiggle room". Lamellar isn't as good a plate. If we were using a wider range, I'd probably put in in at about the 7 point, "partial plate" range.

When I get my MRQ ROme notes finished , those legionaire will have 11-12 AP shields to help augment that lamellar.

They will probably have 7 point armor too, well except for the officers in thier "muscle" breatplates.

 

[Arkat]

Good job on the table.

 

[simonh]

The table looks great at a quick scan. I'll have a closer look on monday.

Simon

 

[Rurik]

Looks good. I love the colour scheme.

Methinks atgxtg might be a fan of RQIII :wink:

 

[Rurik]

Looks great. I definately plan on using this.

Thanks for the effort.

 

[TRose]

A quick comment on Linen armor. Similiar cotton armor was used by the Aztecs and was after a short while also used by the Spanish in their conquest of Mexico.According to the Spaniards it wa superior because. 1) Mexico is a hot climate and it was cooler to wear cotton armor.And 2) Wounds tended to bleed less as as the cotton armor acted as a ready made bandage for any wounds.

 

[atgxtg]

A quick comment on Linen armor. Similiar cotton armor was used by the Aztecs and was after a short while also used by the Spanish in their conquest of Mexico.According to the Spaniards it wa superior because. 1) Mexico is a hot climate and it was cooler to wear cotton armor.And 2) Wounds tended to bleed less as as the cotton armor acted as a ready made bandage for any wounds.

Linen and most of the non-metal armors keep looking better and better. I found out yesterday that the Greeks used to wean linen greavers underneather the bronze, both to prevent chaffing and to provide extra protection.

 

[Rurik]

Linen and most of the non-metal armors keep looking better and better. I found out yesterday that the Greeks used to wean linen greavers underneather the bronze, both to prevent chaffing and to provide extra protection.

Plus it much more comfortable to sleep in. Better even than a cotton/poly blend (though that doesn't wrinkle as easily). Perhaps we should charge by thread count?

 

[atgxtg]

Linen and most of the non-metal armors keep looking better and better. I found out yesterday that the Greeks used to wean linen greavers underneather the bronze, both to prevent chaffing and to provide extra protection.

Plus it much more comfortable to sleep in. Better even than a cotton/poly blend (though that doesn't wrinkle as easily). Perhaps we should charge by thread count?

:lol:

Depending on what constuction methods were used, it might also have been waterproof, wrinkle resistant, and floated. It all dependis on how much resen and wax were used to glue the layers together. Sixten layers, cross-wrapped, with the out layer soasked in way, and possibly stiffed with cuir bouilli or metal could be very formidable armor indeed.

 

[TRose]

Go look at some pictures of Aztec Eagle or Jaguar Knights. They look cool in their cotton armor. Too bad there no place I can think of to stick them in Glorantha

 

[TRose]

BTw, a real quick question to some of our experts here. Does anyone know about how long it took for armor to be made. I Always thought that it was unrealistic for players to plop their gold down at the local smith and walk away with a set of plate armor. Maybe they mass produce plate and other armor in the Clanking city but I doubt if they do elsewhere. Magic might speed up the proccess but I suspect it would still be slow.

 

[Durand Durand]

Takes ages to fit plate, though chain is pretty slow to make too.

DD