Armor and radiation protection

[Spartan159]

Given that apparently armor 0 grants 500 rad protection, do layers of armor grant more? If I had armor 3 and radiation shielding would I have 1,000 rad shielding, 1,500 rad shielding or 3,000 rad shielding? Do planetoid and buffered planetoid hulls grant any inherent rad shielding?

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Nothing official that I know of, but I use 500 RADs protection per point of armour+500 RADS for the hull.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

MgT2: I think it is simply 500 rad (5 Gy) for any hull, total 1000 rad (10 Gy) with radiation shielding. Armour has nothing to do with it.

That way you have a small chance of getting a severe but non-lethal dose if radiation if a radiation weapon hits your shielded ship. Without shielding a few radiation hits will kill you.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello Spartan159,

Given that apparently armor 0 grants 500 rad protection, do layers of armor grant more? If I had armor 3 and radiation shielding would I have 1,000 rad shielding, 1,500 rad shielding or 3,000 rad shielding?

1st ed. CRB/MRB PDF p. 142 inset with Radiation Exposure and Radiation Effects Tables
Hull platting equals, in my opinion, Armor 0 which provides 500 rads of protection
Armor 1 = 500 rads
Armor 2 = 500 rads
Armor 3 = 500 rads

1st ed. CRB/MRB PDF Total rads = 500 x 4 = 2,000 rads

1st ed. HG p. 42 Radiation Shielding
"A ship with radiation shielding decreases the amount of rads absorbed by all crew by 1,000, treats the bridge as if is hardened and provides 6 extra armor points against radiation damage from nuclear weapons, particle beams, and fusion guns.

If I have understood the 1st ed. CRB/MRB and 1 st ed. HG rules correctly

Total Radiation Protection in rads = 1st ed. CRB/MRB PDF Armor radiation protection + 1st ed. HG Radiation Shielding
Total Radiation Protection in rads = 2,000 rads (1st ed. CRB/MRB PDF Armor radiation protection) + 1,000 rads (1st ed. HG Radiation Shielding)
Total Radiation Protection in rads = 3,000 rads.

Do planetoid and buffered planetoid hulls grant any inherent rad shielding?

My best answer is yes based on the information available from 1st ed. HG p. 63.

According to the Armor rules a planetoid has 2 integral armor points which would, in my opinion, provide protection against 1,000 rads or radiation. A buffered planetoid's integral 4 points of armor provides 2,000 rads of radiation protection.

Additional armor points increases shielding by 500 rads plus 1,000 rads for radiation shielding.

Not being in the loop for the HG Beta design rules, I can not give an opinion one way or another.

Hopefully, I've helped and my apologies for 43 day delay.

 

[Spartan159]

Thanks for the response snrdg, not a problem with the delay as input is always welcome. Your method is the one I had been leaning toward, Esp. since T5 went the route of armor "layers". Solar flares are bad enough, throw nukes and PAs into the mix and a ship designer would be a fool not to account for the radiation somehow. Your average Joe Character might be nominally safe until he runs into the renegade Gazelle but those battlewagons are surely not gonna settle for 1k rad total protection. IMO anyway. Losing armor in spots could lead to dangerous zones too.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello Spartan159,

Thanks for the response snrdg, not a problem with the delay as input is always welcome. Your method is the one I had been leaning toward, Esp. since T5 went the route of armor "layers". Solar flares are bad enough, throw nukes and PAs into the mix and a ship designer would be a fool not to account for the radiation somehow. Your average Joe Character might be nominally safe until he runs into the renegade Gazelle but those battlewagons are surely not gonna settle for 1k rad total protection. IMO anyway. Losing armor in spots could lead to dangerous zones too.

My inspiration actually comes from past warship designs and with GURPS Traveller Starships. Unfortunately, I have not yet purchased T5, however I may have had some input when Donald McKinney ran a HG III project on Yahoo ct-starship form back around 2011. Sadly, Donald passed away in December 2015, however his son is stepping up. Donald's would have been celebrating his birthday on 02/06 so I'm going to give him and his family a toast for his memory and best wishes for the family.

Hopefully one of the moderators will drop by and give a hit on how HG 2nd edition will handle armor and radiation.

 

[AndrewW]

Hopefully one of the moderators will drop by and give a hit on how HG 2nd edition will handle armor and radiation.

Generally speaking, moderators don't have any special insight to anything. Having been involved in the High Guard second edition since the beginning I could be an exception, but that is unrelated to the fact that I also happen to be a moderator on here.

Anyways, hasn't really changed from the current High Guard.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AndrewW,

Hopefully one of the moderators will drop by and give a hit on how HG 2nd edition will handle armor and radiation.

Generally speaking, moderators don't have any special insight to anything. Having been involved in the High Guard second edition since the beginning I could be an exception, but that is unrelated to the fact that I also happen to be a moderator on here.

Anyways, hasn't really changed from the current High Guard.

My choice of moderator was not the best choice, however nothing else came to mind. That being said, how far off the mark is my guessing?

 

[AndrewW]

My choice of moderator was not the best choice, however nothing else came to mind. That being said, how far off the mark is my guessing?

The basic hull grants 500, radiation shielding +500. Any armour doesn't change this.

 

[snrdg121408]

Morning AndrewW,

My choice of moderator was not the best choice, however nothing else came to mind. That being said, how far off the mark is my guessing?

The basic hull grants 500, radiation shielding +500. Any armour doesn't change this.

Thank you for the reply, even though the answer goes against my little knowledge about radiation protection, how armor protection works, and the information I dug-up from various online sources which point to the International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP) at http://www.icrp.org/index.asp. Unfortunately, I have not been able to get access to anything useful from the site.

 

[Spartan159]

This does not make any sense to me personally after doing some research on radiation shielding. /Shrug time to update the house rules.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello all,

According to post made on Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:59 am the 2nd ed. of HG radiation shielding protection of 500 rads appears to have been decreased from 1st ed. HG p. 41 which has a protection of 1,000 rads.

Checking between 1st ed. CRB/MRB and 2nd ed. CRB there has been a change in the rules.

1st ed. CRB/MRB p. 142 indicate that a Vacc Suit provides 50 rads, Hazard Suits/Battle Armor provides 200 rads, and Starship Armor provides 500 rads of radiation protection.

From 2nd ed. CRB p. 77

Vacc suits and other measures of protection reduce radiation exposure, as shown on page 94, not 96. The hull of
a spacecraft decreases the radiation exposure of those inside by 500.

Solar flares are therefore still dangerous even to a starship, so when a serious flare is detected vessels usually try to hide behind asteroids, moons, etc. Orbital stations in systems with a lot of flare activity have layers of radiation-absorbent materials and personnel sanctuaries with even more protection, and can ride out even the worst flares. This level of protection is too bulky for all but the most specialised starships.

I disagree with the rule that armor plating does not provide additional radiation protection, unfortunately I appear to be in the minority. When I purchase 2nd ed. HG I will use those rules for any designs that may be posted in the appropriate section, not that I will like the idea.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I disagree with the rule that armor plating does not provide additional radiation protection, unfortunately I appear to be in the minority. When I purchase 2nd ed. HG I will use those rules for any designs that may be posted in the appropriate section, not that I will like the idea.

Referees can use Rule Zero for any reason.

 

[snrdg121408]

Afternoon ShawnDriscoll,

I disagree with the rule that armor plating does not provide additional radiation protection, unfortunately I appear to be in the minority. When I purchase 2nd ed. HG I will use those rules for any designs that may be posted in the appropriate section, not that I will like the idea.

Referees can use Rule Zero for any reason.

The problem is that a ship or any item created using the particular design rules does not have a Referee until the beginning of play.

So far I have attempted to verify my understanding of the particular Traveller design process and I have failed to match any of the designed examples. Okay in 1st ed. CRB/MRB I can match the Corsair's numbers by changing the beam lasers to pulse lasers and the power plant fuel text from six weeks to four weeks.

Apparently my interpretation of the 1st ed. CRB/MRB radiation rules, pp. 141-142, is incorrect and from the information I've gotten 2nd ed. HG changed the original rules by deleting the 1st ed. CRB/MRB rules and lowering the radiation shielding protection level of 1,000 in 1st ed. HG to 500 in 2nd ed. HG.

Finally, my only foray in sharing designs was on the early GURPS JTAS forum's member generated contests. My entries where created following the design rules in GURPS Traveller, GURPS Ground Forces, GUPRS Starships and an application created by Tom Bont. The feedback on the designs, regardless of the method I used, indicated I did not understand the rules. I ask tons of questions, frequently they have been asked more than once, to make sure I am not making up my own rules.

Since I do not seem to be able to properly interpret the rules I do not share anything I design and I rarely ever am able to match the official designs or the designs shared by other members.

Thank you for the reply and hopefully I'll find a Referee who might allow one of my ships or whatever to be used in a game session.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

The problem is that a ship or any item created using the particular design rules does not have a Referee until the beginning of play.

Referees talk to players first before even starting a game. Ship details are figured out then, if players decide it's something crucial.

So far I have attempted to verify my understanding of the particular Traveller design process and I have failed to match any of the designed examples. Okay in 1st ed. CRB/MRB I can match the Corsair's numbers by changing the beam lasers to pulse lasers and the power plant fuel text from six weeks to four weeks.

By default, game examples don't match game rules in RPGs. For Traveller, this tradition started with the example Jamison character. He has been corrected and re-broke so many times over by fan-made errata.

Apparently my interpretation of the 1st ed. CRB/MRB radiation rules, pp. 141-142, is incorrect and from the information I've gotten 2nd ed. HG changed the original rules by deleting the 1st ed. CRB/MRB rules and lowering the radiation shielding protection level of 1,000 in 1st ed. HG to 500 in 2nd ed. HG.

I don't worry about differences in edition rules because they are not the same games.

Finally, my only foray in sharing designs was on the early GURPS JTAS forum's member generated contests. My entries where created following the design rules in GURPS Traveller, GURPS Ground Forces, GUPRS Starships and an application created by Tom Bont. The feedback on the designs, regardless of the method I used, indicated I did not understand the rules. I ask tons of questions, frequently they have been asked more than once, to make sure I am not making up my own rules.

And especially if it's a GURPS game.

Since I do not seem to be able to properly interpret the rules I do not share anything I design and I rarely ever am able to match the official designs or the designs shared by other members.

Thank you for the reply and hopefully I'll find a Referee who might allow one of my ships or whatever to be used in a game session.

Whatever you submit, other Referees are going to change it anyway and however they like. Once you hand a Referee something, it is now theirs to do whatever with. You are no longer in the picture. No two Referees can agree on anything. That is why there is only one Referee at a game table. I only know of one movie that had two film directors. And they were kept separated during the making of the film.