Armies of the Fifth Frontier War, Impressions Not Errata

Let me just say that, as a member of the SCA [the US' largest medieval reenactment group], I NEVER wore a codpiece. And you have never seen anything quite so as ridiculous as a grown man wearing a 14th century parti-color outfit with codpiece, sash, and shoes with toes long enough to be tied up to his knees and all of it decorated with 'folly bells'.
Look, I was in the dance clubs in the 80s and, yes, we looked pretty stupid. But we never looked THAT stupid....
[Jesus, the stuff young men will do to try and get laid.... Thank God I did all that crap before Instagram!]
 
My interpretation to this is that the 'classic' Battle Dress design is the Marines Battle Dress and the ones in this book are, as indicated in the illustrations' subtitles, the Infantry/Army Battle Dress.
Bingo. Iconic Marine Battle dress is iconic, and we will never be deviating far from that.

Army guys get a different design, and you can be sure we will be returning to Battle dress in the not too distant future.

The big problem was always 'lack of chonk'. We don't want to go silly but battle dress needs... a certain something above and beyond Combat Armour, which is what a lot of battle dress in the past ended up looking like. Kind of like the difference between power armour and Terminator armour in 40k (but with less shoulder and fewer skulls).

We have been discussing this with Marc, and will continue to explore...
 
Bingo. Iconic Marine Battle dress is iconic, and we will never be deviating far from that.

Army guys get a different design, and you can be sure we will be returning to Battle dress in the not too distant future.

The big problem was always 'lack of chonk'. We don't want to go silly but battle dress needs... a certain something above and beyond Combat Armour, which is what a lot of battle dress in the past ended up looking like. Kind of like the difference between power armour and Terminator armour in 40k (but with less shoulder and fewer skulls).

We have been discussing this with Marc, and will continue to explore...
The CSC 2023 has a perfectly good depiction of Battle Dress on pg 38. Armies 5FW could have used that one.
If the Army and Marines must have a difference in appearance, I can see a visual difference between a TL 14 Army suit and the classic teardrop helmet of a more refined TL 15 Marine suit.
But the Battle Dress artwork in Armies of the Fifth Frontier War looks like a caricature out of a manga. It's right down there with all the Vargr guns having wolf-head sights and all the Aslan vehicles having paws like something out of Thundercats. And I called that stupid looking at the time too.
 
Bingo. Iconic Marine Battle dress is iconic, and we will never be deviating far from that.

Army guys get a different design, and you can be sure we will be returning to Battle dress in the not too distant future.

The big problem was always 'lack of chonk'. We don't want to go silly but battle dress needs... a certain something above and beyond Combat Armour, which is what a lot of battle dress in the past ended up looking like. Kind of like the difference between power armour and Terminator armour in 40k (but with less shoulder and fewer skulls).

We have been discussing this with Marc, and will continue to explore...
Just Doctor Who it. Use a dimensional technology to shrink the users down and crew it like a vehicle. lol
 
Here's where I sit on this fence:
If it's alright for Star Trek and Star Wars and a solid 50 frikkin' anime to have their own style and depiction, just why the Hell is it 'grumpy' or 'picky' to insist that the oldest science fiction RPG in existence have its own graphic style too?
 
Lobster tail helmets.

Or ...

6229_Duchess_of_Hamilton_at_the_National_Railway_Museum.jpg



Historical.
 
Bingo. Iconic Marine Battle dress is iconic, and we will never be deviating far from that.

Army guys get a different design, and you can be sure we will be returning to Battle dress in the not too distant future.

I am glad to hear it! That being the case, may I suggest a slight alteration to the text as to better convey this? Presently the relevant section of the book seems to imply the depicted Battle Dress models are used across all of the Imperium's military branches:
In an attempt to keep costs merely astronomical, Imperial forces use only three variants of battle dress. In addition to the standard infantry suit, command suits are used by both army and marine officers, and assault battle dress is issued to units trained for meteoric assault operations. Small numbers of other variant suits are in operation with specialist units and a variety of accessories can be carried to customise the suit.
(Armies of the Fifth Frontier War, Page 62, 1st Paragraph)

I do believe the above is a direct quotation from The MegaTraveller Journal 1's 'Dressed to Kill' article on Battle Dress, so it naturally doesn't reflect this new development as-is.
 
I know that the core idea is probably that most actual casualties are inflicted by like, explosives, but is it intended that the rifle issued to most of the Imperial Army is basically ineffective against Zhodani soldiers wearing even light combat armour? Is that like, seen in-fiction as a procurement error or poor planning, or anything like that? I can imagine there's a lot of rather frustrated veterans who are angry that the weapon they were issued just didn't have the stopping power required to defeat their enemy even with sustained fire at close range, when gauss rifles of the same tech level that are only slightly more expensive wouldn't have that problem at all.
 
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I still haven't decided if I should get the book or not. The discussion about battle dress is interesting, but now the million dollar question: Does the marines carry FGMP-15, or has this iconic weapon been renamed in this book as well?
 
The Combined Army equipped at TL12 trope should have been deleted. It was wrong when it was postulated for GT and it is still wrong now.

The FFW order of battle in the board game clearly shows the overwhelming presence of:

a Regular Imperial Army (also mentioned in other CT sources)

the Regular Army is equipped to TL15, with only a minority still rated as TL14.

They should also have gauss rifles as standard small arms, not ACRs...

Where are the rules for a TL12 Imperial Combined Army battalion plus support going up against a TL14 Zhodani battalion plus support?

Where is the mention of the meson ortillery now the most common form of orbital fire support (TL11 50t meson gun bays)

Where is the nature of differntt TL forces going up against each other analysed?
 
The Combined Army equipped at TL12 trope should have been deleted. It was wrong when it was postulated for GT and it is still wrong now.

The FFW order of battle in the board game clearly shows the overwhelming presence of:

a Regular Imperial Army (also mentioned in other CT sources)

the Regular Army is equipped to TL15, with only a minority still rated as TL14.

They should also have gauss rifles as standard small arms, not ACRs...

Where are the rules for a TL12 Imperial Combined Army battalion plus support going up against a TL14 Zhodani battalion plus support?

Where is the mention of the meson ortillery now the most common form of orbital fire support (TL11 50t meson gun bays)

Where is the nature of differntt TL forces going up against each other analysed?
It does kind of seem like madness that the Imperium would issue TL12 gear to soldiers on the Zhodani border for nebulous contracting/political reasons. That rather strikes me like the US army issuing breech-loading rifles to their soldiers because they can be manufactured in every small town across the country, except it's worse than that, because they don't have any active borders which have been previously attacked in living memory to defend.

It could be fine if that's viewed as like, a massively incompetent move the Imperium made, that was maybe pushed through for the sake of political expediency, but that's not a read I'm getting on the situation from looking over the text.
 
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It does kind of seem like madness that the Imperium would issue TL12 gear to soldiers on the Zhodani border for nebulous contracting/political reasons. That rather strikes me like the US army issuing breech-loading rifles to their soldiers because they can be manufactured in every small town across the country, except it's worse than that, because they don't have any active borders which have been previously attacked in living memory to defend.

It could be fine if that's viewed as like, a massively incompetent move the Imperium made, that was maybe pushed through for the sake of political expediency, but that's not a read I'm getting on the situation from looking over the text.
No, I can see the issuance of a TL 12 base when you're trying to outfit millions of troops. The Consular troops attacking the Imperium are the best equipped in the Consulate. There are probably Consular Army units equipped to lower standards in other provinces, but Iadr Nsobl troops get the best the Consulate can produce.
As to Imperial procurement practices, yes, where the defense contract money goes matters. In every governmental system where taxes are levied, the citizens expect to see some of those taxes come back in local expenditures in local businesses.
For just one example of that practice biting a service in the ass, the USN was forced to take delivery on several ships of the LCS class ['littoral combat ships'] that were too focused in design and never lived up to their expectations. By the time the first ships were coming into commission, the Navy had given up on the concept. It tried to weasel out of the deal and cancel the contract, but the Congressional delegations of the effected states took, um, 'extreme' displeasure at the Navy putting so many skilled shipwrights out of work all the sudden. THEN the Navy tried foist these orphan ships off on the Coast Guard and it took major effort to defeat that stunt. The idea was to give the LCSs to the Coast Guard and steal money of of the CG's budget that the CG had earmarked on ships specifically designed for CG missions.
However, comma, but the practice of spreading defense dollars out to create jobs in local industries is generally a good one. It helps maintain both the technical know-how in a given industry and it keeps skilled technical workers employed with well-paying jobs.
Where I differ insofar as Imperial equipment goes is that IMTU the Imperial Army is equipped with Gauss Rifles, not ACRs.
 
I know that the core idea is probably that most actual casualties are inflicted by like, explosives, but is it intended that the rifle issued to most of the Imperial Army is basically ineffective against Zhodani soldiers wearing even light combat armour? Is that like, seen in-fiction as a procurement error or poor planning, or anything like that? I can imagine there's a lot of rather frustrated veterans who are angry that the weapon they were issued just didn't have the stopping power required to defeat their enemy even with sustained fire at close range, when gauss rifles of the same tech level that are only slightly more expensive wouldn't have that problem at all.
No, 3d damage will penetrate light combat armor. Especially if you're on auto-fire and hit the guy 3 or 4 times.
But 4d on auto-fire is way better :D
 
No, I can see the issuance of a TL 12 base when you're trying to outfit millions of troops. The Consular troops attacking the Imperium are the best equipped in the Consulate. There are probably Consular Army units equipped to lower standards in other provinces, but Iadr Nsobl troops get the best the Consulate can produce.
As to Imperial procurement practices, yes, where the defense contract money goes matters. In every governmental system where taxes are levied, the citizens expect to see some of those taxes come back in local expenditures in local businesses.
For just one example of that practice biting a service in the ass, the USN was forced to take delivery on several ships of the LCS class ['littoral combat ships'] that were too focused in design and never lived up to their expectations. By the time the first ships were coming into commission, the Navy had given up on the concept. It tried to weasel out of the deal and cancel the contract, but the Congressional delegations of the effected states took, um, 'extreme' displeasure at the Navy putting so many skilled shipwrights out of work all the sudden. THEN the Navy tried foist these orphan ships off on the Coast Guard and it took major effort to defeat that stunt. The idea was to give the LCSs to the Coast Guard and steal money of of the CG's budget that the CG had earmarked on ships specifically designed for CG missions.
However, comma, but the practice of spreading defense dollars out to create jobs in local industries is generally a good one. It helps maintain both the technical know-how in a given industry and it keeps skilled technical workers employed with well-paying jobs.
Where I differ insofar as Imperial equipment goes is that IMTU the Imperial Army is equipped with Gauss Rifles, not ACRs.
I could see this defending a falloff of 1 tech level from what they could have, but TL12 vs. TL15 is such a staggering difference that it's hard to see how it remains in place. Like, the Zhodani can decrypt transmissions from the electronics suite of imperial TL12 combat armour in real time with impunity. But it is certainly true that just giving them gauss rifles, ideally with AP rounds, makes the majority of the difference.
No, 3d damage will penetrate light combat armor. Especially if you're on auto-fire and hit the guy 3 or 4 times.
But 4d on auto-fire is way better :D
3D can just about deal a small amount of damage to somebody wearing light combat armour, if they roll well, but certainly not enough to be an effective combat weapon. It's less damage per shot on average than shooting an unarmoured person with an air rifle.
 
Wasn’t in mentioned somewhere in the book that the imperial army is most likely to face off against mid-TL insurgents and the like, thus them using ACR and other simpler stuff? While also having access to Gauss weaponry at need, at least for some units?

Speaking of Gauss weapons, the marine issue Gauss rifle has a deliberately lower auto rating due to its higher damage, I presume?
 
Bingo. Iconic Marine Battle dress is iconic, and we will never be deviating far from that.

Army guys get a different design, and you can be sure we will be returning to Battle dress in the not too distant future.

The big problem was always 'lack of chonk'. We don't want to go silly but battle dress needs... a certain something above and beyond Combat Armour, which is what a lot of battle dress in the past ended up looking like. Kind of like the difference between power armour and Terminator armour in 40k (but with less shoulder and fewer skulls).

We have been discussing this with Marc, and will continue to explore...
Glad to read this, as this was exactly how I was gonna do it IMTU!

I like the new designs, but the old one is an iconic classic (and I noticed that both imperial and Zho classic style BD are featured in the book)
 
As always, it depends on who they're expecting to fight, and how they plan to beat them.

And, what resources or assets they have available, to accomplish this.
 
No, I can see the issuance of a TL 12 base when you're trying to outfit millions of troops. The Consular troops attacking the Imperium are the best equipped in the Consulate.
The 2 TL advantage of Zhodani forces make the Imperial troops nothing but cannon fodder. The Imperium can afford to equip millions of troops to TL15, all it costs is the equivalent of one trillion credit fleet. 1,000,000 men x 1,000,000Cr = 1 fleet.
There are probably Consular Army units equipped to lower standards in other provinces, but Iadr Nsobl troops get the best the Consulate can produce.
As to Imperial procurement practices, yes, where the defense contract money goes matters. In every governmental system where taxes are levied, the citizens expect to see some of those taxes come back in local expenditures in local businesses.
The economic model handwave is ridiculous. There is a reason no one builds Sherman tanks anymore even though they would cost a lot less using modern factories; no propeller driven interceptors, no battleships even.
For just one example of that practice biting a service in the ass, the USN was forced to take delivery on several ships of the LCS class ['littoral combat ships'] that were too focused in design and never lived up to their expectations. By the time the first ships were coming into commission, the Navy had given up on the concept.
Were they built to WW1 standards? No , they were state of the art, they were just a poor concept.
It tried to weasel out of the deal and cancel the contract, but the Congressional delegations of the effected states took, um, 'extreme' displeasure at the Navy putting so many skilled shipwrights out of work all the sudden. THEN the Navy tried foist these orphan ships off on the Coast Guard and it took major effort to defeat that stunt. The idea was to give the LCSs to the Coast Guard and steal money of of the CG's budget that the CG had earmarked on ships specifically designed for CG missions.
I wonder how many new build WW1 era destroyers will be built to defend against the Chinese Navy?
However, comma, but the practice of spreading defense dollars out to create jobs in local industries is generally a good one. It helps maintain both the technical know-how in a given industry and it keeps skilled technical workers employed with well-paying jobs.
Where I differ insofar as Imperial equipment goes is that IMTU the Imperial Army is equipped with Gauss Rifles, not ACRs.
IMTU the Imperial Army is, to quote LBB:6 Scouts (sort of):
"The Imperial Army is a major service within the Imperium equal in stature to the Imperial Navy and the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service."

and in 1105 is equipped to TL15 standards as detailed in LBB:4 Mercenary, which means battledress and FGMP14 for every infantryman.
 
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