Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Worse, it turns out the new design system is broken.
Armies of the Fifth Frontier War, Impressions Not Errata
- Thread starter ottarrus
- Start date
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I'd say no, never, but this is Mongoose.
I believe the new system is sound, and even very similar to the old system, though it will undoubtedly not please everyone. For transparency, I will admit to having been a beta reader for the new rules and have already used the new system.
A new book they *might* buy. Treating the entire playerbase like they are the way we are, buying all or nearly all the material and actually putting time into the various obscure rules sets is a mistake. I suspect that the majority of the player base will not even notice that they don't match unless someone tells them.
It would be nice if, post release, there was a pdf update bringing some of the older stuff up to date. But I don't know what their work capacity for that sort of thing is.
It would be nice if, post release, there was a pdf update bringing some of the older stuff up to date. But I don't know what their work capacity for that sort of thing is.
MonsterX
Emperor Mongoose
As others have pointed out, the situation is not the same as 20th century Earth when you can ship around the global in a few weeks. Equipment coming from TL 15 worlds may need to be shipped for months. Local suppliers in the FFW are going to be lower tech. Not everyone is building TL 15. Much the time TL 12 is good enough. (this doesn't mean that the Imperium would stick to TL 12 though - that is definitely a bad decision)
Instead, ask yourself, would a TL 4 army use TL 1 gear if they had to? Swords, lances? IRL at TL 4, they obviously did have such equipment and used it alongside their guns, but a sword from 1850 would have been perfectly recognizable and usable by someone from 1000 or even 0 AD. An army from 1850 would fight using swords and bayonets if they ran out of ammo. Our current age is one of uniquely fast technological progress, but the Imperium is not.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The example to study would be the Sword Worlders.
As a systematic approach.
As a systematic approach.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Who cares if it has to be shipped for months? They have been building this tech for the last 300 years. That crap could have been shipped to the Galactic Core by now.
No, they wouldn't. Men who used swords in the 1850s would have no idea how to fight with a Roman Gladius. Swords in the 1850s that were used by armies were predominantly calvary sabers. So, there is no skill correlation there. Once you take away their rifles, are your infantrymen supposed to know how to use a sling? You know what else your 1850s calvary wouldn't have using TL-1 gear? Stirrups. I'd love to see your 1850s artillery guys trying to figure out how to build, aim and fire a catapult. An army from the 1850s fighting a TL-1 army using TL-1 equipment would lose, badly. The TL-1 guys know how to use their equpiment, the TL-4 guys do not.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Personally, I think the FFW needs to be scrapped and redone as it no longer matches the reality of Charted Space. The routes that the fleets use to reach their targets is stupid. Why are they not using empty hexes to travel invisibly? According to WBH...
According to this, empty hexes are only empty on the commercially available Travellermap. In reality they can have plenty of places to refuel, gas giants, rogue planets, etc.
So, why did the writers not take this into account when writing the new MgT2 FFW?
According to this, empty hexes are only empty on the commercially available Travellermap. In reality they can have plenty of places to refuel, gas giants, rogue planets, etc.
So, why did the writers not take this into account when writing the new MgT2 FFW?
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
and this is another reason why all of the building rules (by topic) need to be in the same book (by topic) and writers need a setting "bible" so they know what technology is in Charted Space and which isn't. If they want to make a change to Canon, then that should go through @MongooseMatt and not just be up to the author.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
You are preaching to the choir...
if Mongoose is not working behind the scenes on a 3rd edition of Mongoose Traveller for release in 2027
a) they are allowing this contradictory, inconsistent, bloated mess to continue (likely a bit harsh but it is passion driving me, I really like what Mongoose has done with Traveller - I know it often doesn't come across that way)
b) they are missing the chance to cash in big time on the anniversary, it is going to be a big talking point as we head to 2027 (everyone post on every rpg forum and antisocial media platform that you can, get people talking)
c) they are happy with the cash they are raking in and don't want any more (I have spent a fortune on FFW books that I consider to be worse than useless so far, with the exception of a couple of adventures, and will continue to purchase future books, I hope to be surprised by suddenly having some agency as was promised, at least GDW gave us a wargame/boardgame to fight the war ourselves)
if Mongoose is not working behind the scenes on a 3rd edition of Mongoose Traveller for release in 2027
a) they are allowing this contradictory, inconsistent, bloated mess to continue (likely a bit harsh but it is passion driving me, I really like what Mongoose has done with Traveller - I know it often doesn't come across that way)
b) they are missing the chance to cash in big time on the anniversary, it is going to be a big talking point as we head to 2027 (everyone post on every rpg forum and antisocial media platform that you can, get people talking)
c) they are happy with the cash they are raking in and don't want any more (I have spent a fortune on FFW books that I consider to be worse than useless so far, with the exception of a couple of adventures, and will continue to purchase future books, I hope to be surprised by suddenly having some agency as was promised, at least GDW gave us a wargame/boardgame to fight the war ourselves)
I don't know that I'd say they are worse than useless. They don't actively harm my game, though the "Imperial Army is TL 12" thing certainly comes close in that it will taint discussion for years.
I will say that Invasion was vastly more useful than any of the FFW sourcebooks so far.
I will say that Invasion was vastly more useful than any of the FFW sourcebooks so far.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
One addendum, I know that there are only a few people who post regularly on these forums, and a few more who post occasionally, so I don't want to come across as ridiculously negative to people who may just pass by. Many will find the FFW books really useful for their games, I don't regret buying them, and I can see how many will find the information in these books useful.
So the few of us that post regularly have "the loudest voice", we should be careful that a minority loud voice doesn't do more harm than good. Mongoose has 1,000 people there or there about contribute to the kickstarters, and their sales on drivethru are likely matched by their own store sales, if not surpassed. So there is a sizable fanbase that remains silent when we have these discussions, most just get on with their own game and ignore the noise.
Too much sun, BBQ and sangria...
So the few of us that post regularly have "the loudest voice", we should be careful that a minority loud voice doesn't do more harm than good. Mongoose has 1,000 people there or there about contribute to the kickstarters, and their sales on drivethru are likely matched by their own store sales, if not surpassed. So there is a sizable fanbase that remains silent when we have these discussions, most just get on with their own game and ignore the noise.
Too much sun, BBQ and sangria...
