Armageddon: WOW
- Thread starter katadder
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Geekybiker
Mongoose
Captain Kremmen said:
Its just that its a mechanic that feels WRONG. Ship guns far out range fighter guns. They would have a chance to fire before the fighters do. Even guns that are specifically anti-fighter have no chance to take down the fighters first? Thats just silly. Not to mention I think the show bears out fighters getting shot down on the way in.
It just feels like mongoose went with the first/easiest solution rather than considering it and coming up with best solution possible.
I guess we'll see how it really turns out, but I expect to see everyone fielding some fighters now. If only to tie up other fighters so they dont get a free shot. I expect the narn 1-2 punch of emines and pretty effective fighters is going to make them a pain to fight against.
Geekybiker said:
We were playing with the new rules months ago and it "felt right". It's a really good fix for fighters. They're not overpowered like they were in 1E but better than they are now. That they fire before ships puts fighters exactly where they should be since CTA is an effects-based game, not a hard core simulation.
And there's probably too many armchair admirals around that need to play the new fighter rules before complaining about them.
especially with the advanced e-mines on the new ships firing every turn, and with e-mines not having the -1 on damage rolls anymore either (but still not causing crits). not that that effects fighters but the ships your fighters may be flying CAF on.
my anti fighter defence, let someone boresite a corvan after flying into the middle of his force, they send fighters to overcome stealth and then the corvan explodes taking all the fighters with it
and hopefully wearing down interceptors on the big ships.
my anti fighter defence, let someone boresite a corvan after flying into the middle of his force, they send fighters to overcome stealth and then the corvan explodes taking all the fighters with it
and hopefully wearing down interceptors on the big ships.
B_Steele
Mongoose
They do. Most fighters have to get within 2 inches to even try...ship weapons can get at them while they are at range while they are deployed, but before they zip in and deal their aggravating damage.
See above, just at shorter ranges.
We've been playing this way for many games now, and nobody has cried 'broken' around our tables. Instead, we see more diverse battles and tactics. Such a simple change has made for a huge altering of some people's fleet-building and tactics, which is good by all accounts.
This is a good thing, isn't it? Narratively, how often would war fleets go out WITHOUT them? Not to mention, fighters always play a huge part scene-wise of every B5 battle in the show. Sure, they don't bring down the Churchill or Shadow Cruisers...but they are always around, y'know?
Forcing our players to start taking more diverse fleets is exactly what people have been clamouring about, now they don't HAVE to take fighters, but not taking them even for a defensive aspect, is foolish and could give certain enemies an advantage.
Well, I've got to go back to work...but play with the new aux.craft rules a few times before making your decisions...you'll see how sweet it is!
Cheers all,
Bry
Geekybiker
Mongoose
Mongoose Steele said:
Not saying everyone taking fighters is a bad thing. Just predicting the changes that this will force on tactics.
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
I for one welcome the fighter change! And I really think that it is a good thing that it will make people think twice about their fleet compsitions - basically, the rule just brings another aspect back to the game that should have been there, adding to the tactical depth of ACTA without getting the game any more complicated!
I´m really looking forward to making my first game under these rules!
I´m really looking forward to making my first game under these rules!
well, it SOUNDS wrong, and indeed most fighters move further than secondary gun range, so they will always get that shot in, it means while minbari stealth is fixed, nials again sweep through enemy fleets.. glad I'm Narn
but if it stops people Whining about fighters it can only be a good thing... apart from the drakh, who have no fighters and minimal antifighter guns
but if it stops people Whining about fighters it can only be a good thing... apart from the drakh, who have no fighters and minimal antifighter guns
Geekybiker
Mongoose
Nerroth said:
What, you dont like Disney's "The Jungle Book?"
friendlyfire
Mongoose
NO!!! Please, say it isn't so! I guess I'm making my own new ships... or more 'squishy' scouts :?katadder said:
What i see ist one thing the most here forgot that theire big Ship guns shoot at ranges the fighter has no chance to fire back. So what´s the problem with the fighters shot first? They have still come to you and so you have at least one or two round before any Fighter can do anything.
Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
Even if you are that mad- a Thorun can cover that in one round and get it's shots in before the target can do anything about it. Slightly extreme example, but the Fury, Thunderbolt, and Nial can all do as much against most ships, and then there are those with short range secondaries, at least- Abbai, Centauri, Narn- that most fighters can rush in on. Often you'll have no rounds to react.
As for the Shadow Omega, that's another new ship whose changes I will be ignoring then. There were some things that needed altered, but that, and especially the Warlock, weren't two of them. Going too far and fixing something that isn't broken, it seems.
As for the Shadow Omega, that's another new ship whose changes I will be ignoring then. There were some things that needed altered, but that, and especially the Warlock, weren't two of them. Going too far and fixing something that isn't broken, it seems.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Just to clarify do fighters ALWAYS fire first now or are they simply back to being nominateable like a ship as they used to be?
In either case I dont see it being the big cheese threat some people make it out to be in fact I think it could work pretty well.
As for EA losing all their Warships
That said I rarely used them anyway (though I will lament using my lovely Warlock less). However, EA DO get an improved Omega and an shiny new Marathon at Battle level to play with so thats some consolation at least.
In either case I dont see it being the big cheese threat some people make it out to be in fact I think it could work pretty well.
As for EA losing all their Warships
That said I rarely used them anyway (though I will lament using my lovely Warlock less). However, EA DO get an improved Omega and an shiny new Marathon at Battle level to play with so thats some consolation at least.
Yeah, I could be over-reacting. Just hate to see us going backward to stuff that caused problems before.
We talked about it around here, having the fighters fire first months ago and we all immedeately had nightmares about the giant thunderbolt stack of 16 on one battle hull. Forty eight dice that are just going to fire, likely attacking from 15 inches or more away due to afterburners. And a fairly typical Earth force fleet can field this many fighters easily, so it's all added firepower to how Earth is now which felt balanced. What ships can take that kind of punishment.
Add in for me many league races have slow fighters that will get shot at on the way in, or have to give up real firepower to get ships that carry fighters (or in the Vree case give up ships period as they have no carriers) and it gets dicey. The Vree in particular are taking a big hit here as the hull and damage numbers are small so those fighter ad will be a big deal. This from being practically fighter proof. Huge power swing there at least.
I just want people to start looking at this in a more case by case way instead of the whole well this is a good thing for fighters and fleet formations rounds.
Ripple
We talked about it around here, having the fighters fire first months ago and we all immedeately had nightmares about the giant thunderbolt stack of 16 on one battle hull. Forty eight dice that are just going to fire, likely attacking from 15 inches or more away due to afterburners. And a fairly typical Earth force fleet can field this many fighters easily, so it's all added firepower to how Earth is now which felt balanced. What ships can take that kind of punishment.
Add in for me many league races have slow fighters that will get shot at on the way in, or have to give up real firepower to get ships that carry fighters (or in the Vree case give up ships period as they have no carriers) and it gets dicey. The Vree in particular are taking a big hit here as the hull and damage numbers are small so those fighter ad will be a big deal. This from being practically fighter proof. Huge power swing there at least.
I just want people to start looking at this in a more case by case way instead of the whole well this is a good thing for fighters and fleet formations rounds.
Ripple
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