Armageddon: success or Failure?
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Geekybiker
Mongoose
Pauly_D said:
'cause it was the "easy" way out to fixing the fighters. It doesnt feel right at all for the fiction, and the way AF ships,etc work. There were alot of suggestions on this board that I think would have been better choices.
That was a popular and tactically interesting suggestion. The most common number suggested was the number of flights you get at the purchase pl regardless of actual origin.
The answer in Arm. is not balanced or it would have affected the races equally. It did not. Races who were by no means weak were strengthened by virtue of the numerous ship board flights now getting free shots and/or by having very strong dogfighters virtually ensuring fighter superiority. Races that depended on anti-fighter systems and/or with weak or few dogfighters that they did not have to give up ships for were weakened.
This rule is easy, quick and not fairly clear. It does not drastically affect the central races of the game. It does drastically affect the operation of certain league races. We will not see the results of this change until someone sits down and tries to break it. Much like folks were saying that earth force was not a competative fleet until follks sat down and figured out you needed to take enough of any one thing to make it work. Or as we found out the first time fighters shot first, someone figured out the best way to make the fighters pay for themselves.
It may turn out to be more balanced than I fear, but it is certainly not balanced in regards to some races right now, and I think we have yet to see the impact.
Ripple
The answer in Arm. is not balanced or it would have affected the races equally. It did not. Races who were by no means weak were strengthened by virtue of the numerous ship board flights now getting free shots and/or by having very strong dogfighters virtually ensuring fighter superiority. Races that depended on anti-fighter systems and/or with weak or few dogfighters that they did not have to give up ships for were weakened.
This rule is easy, quick and not fairly clear. It does not drastically affect the central races of the game. It does drastically affect the operation of certain league races. We will not see the results of this change until someone sits down and tries to break it. Much like folks were saying that earth force was not a competative fleet until follks sat down and figured out you needed to take enough of any one thing to make it work. Or as we found out the first time fighters shot first, someone figured out the best way to make the fighters pay for themselves.
It may turn out to be more balanced than I fear, but it is certainly not balanced in regards to some races right now, and I think we have yet to see the impact.
Ripple
prelude_to_war
Mongoose
I voted 'marginal disappointment'...I like the rule updates including fighters (I need more gameplay with this change). The Armageddon ship stats are OK I guess. Minis are blah.
I do find this book overpriced and overhyped. The 'Miniatures' section I find appalling and could hear a cash register 'ka-ching!' every time I turned the page. Someone mentioned the repeat EA list information taking up space...'ka-ching!'
Lastly, along with the typos - numerous photos appear stretched vertically or horizontally. As someone who designs print and electronic media for a living this sort of thing is unacceptable. No way this was intentional!...?
If Mongoose is going to release 'one major book per year' I certainly hope it'd be of higher caliber than this.
Don't take this as 'everyone's dumping on A so I'm going to too'. I too am calling it as I see it, only I'm doing the calling $25+shipping poorer...:x
I do find this book overpriced and overhyped. The 'Miniatures' section I find appalling and could hear a cash register 'ka-ching!' every time I turned the page. Someone mentioned the repeat EA list information taking up space...'ka-ching!'
Lastly, along with the typos - numerous photos appear stretched vertically or horizontally. As someone who designs print and electronic media for a living this sort of thing is unacceptable. No way this was intentional!...?
If Mongoose is going to release 'one major book per year' I certainly hope it'd be of higher caliber than this.
Don't take this as 'everyone's dumping on A so I'm going to too'. I too am calling it as I see it, only I'm doing the calling $25+shipping poorer...:x
CZuschlag
Mongoose
I voted for total loss. It represents a massive step backwards from the progress made in the already published Tourney list, complete with a fundamentally game-altering priority-level purchasing system that throws all the previous fleet purchase mechanics out the window with the bathwater. All of our previous understanding of priority levels and purchases in fights are immediately irrelevant.
And I thought we concluded that 6-ship squadrons were a bad thing -- it's what made the Pentacon busted -- not a good thing. Now everyone get 'em. Silly me. Can't wait for the 6-Sullust / 6 Tinashi / 6 Drakh CL volleys. Whoopee!
Not.
It feels like more foresight went into the diplomatic negociations with North Korea. The pundits knew what was going to happen, published ideas and solutions -- and the initiative predictably failed anyways. Smells like foreign policy, indeed.
And I thought we concluded that 6-ship squadrons were a bad thing -- it's what made the Pentacon busted -- not a good thing. Now everyone get 'em. Silly me. Can't wait for the 6-Sullust / 6 Tinashi / 6 Drakh CL volleys. Whoopee!
Not.
It feels like more foresight went into the diplomatic negociations with North Korea. The pundits knew what was going to happen, published ideas and solutions -- and the initiative predictably failed anyways. Smells like foreign policy, indeed.
waldronbob350
Mongoose
CAN SOME ONE HELP ME WITH THIS
ok i was under the understanding that the new armageddon would cancal out tourny stats and what was not found in armageddon you would use SFOS i must be wrong because for example the whitestar is not in armageddon so that would mean you would have to use the SFOS stats,
please tell me i am wrong
ok i was under the understanding that the new armageddon would cancal out tourny stats and what was not found in armageddon you would use SFOS i must be wrong because for example the whitestar is not in armageddon so that would mean you would have to use the SFOS stats,
please tell me i am wrong
Iain McGhee
Mongoose
I've been using the Armageddon changes for about a month (surprising what you can learn on this forum...) and got the book a couple of days ago. I'm quite happy with it in general, although I'm going to need to get another couple of Omegas to make up for losing the Orestes from the Third Age list. The only thing I'm not so sure of is the Hyperion stats for the Early Years list. Don't thing they should have Heavy Lasers. At best I'd think some of them may have had Oracle-style Medium Lasers. Or are all of the pre-2246 versions Assault Cruisers ?
Basically ill nevev buy the book.
Just get the usual rulebook guy to lend it to me for a few days. And forumites are rather nice people, anything you need can be gleaned from here ^^.
And unfortunately that has nothing to do with the rules changes, but rather with the bad mniatures (in cases where you can still call them that). I have some as big models myself. But every single one is of higher quality than those.....
Just get the usual rulebook guy to lend it to me for a few days. And forumites are rather nice people, anything you need can be gleaned from here ^^.
And unfortunately that has nothing to do with the rules changes, but rather with the bad mniatures (in cases where you can still call them that). I have some as big models myself. But every single one is of higher quality than those.....
That's from the Dilgar War stuff in B5W. That had Hyperions and Novas armed with Medium Laser Cannon throughout...without enough power to arm all of them at once. (The Hyperions may also have had Plasma Cannon - I can't remember.)
There were no Laser/Pulse Arrays for the Nova at that time, as Pulse weapons were developed after the war.
captainsmirk
Mongoose
Yep, the Hyperion had lots of plasma cannons. Although it actually had Particle cannons not Medium Lasers. It was the Hecate (a Hyperion by another name, a fluff attempt to disguise an updated cruiser design as a testbed, to avoid budget restraints...) that had the lasers.
Nick
Nick
Celisasu
Mongoose
Pauly_D said:
Because the new fighter rules read "And you thought hull 4 ships were bad before. Try playing Vree now suckers!". The answer to play Tzymms is not an answer. They'll be so badly outnumbered by enemy fighters to basically be free points and the Vree will still get mauled and with less ships too.
It also makes a lot of other ships that depend on the anti-fighter trait as a balancing factor useless.
Geekybiker
Mongoose
JayRaider said:
That would be a start at least, and my biggest WTF? with the new fighter rules. I would have rather just seen fighters be nominated for fire in the normal turn order though. You want to jump that ship before it can fire? Okay, but you give up a firing slot of a capital ship to do so.
Also the stealth, while easier to hit is still the same frustrating mechanic.
I feel like it went sideways instead of forward. seriously, how hard would have been to have failed stealth halve your AD, or add +2 to your to hit number?captainsmirk
Mongoose
A hate to say it but haven't we known that was going to be the stealth change since long before Armageddon came out. Back then lots of people seemed to be happy with it...
Nick
Nick
