Armageddon: success or Failure?

[H]

ok then, by now, quite a few people have seen or heard whats in, whats out, this seasons colours and so on, Ship viewers from burger, LBH, and Cherns fab new cards let us look at the new ships. So, Overall, do we rate Armageddon as a sucess or failure.

I personally see it as a failure, Mongoose failed to deliver on a number of issues that were mentioned, they threw out their "more" balanced ships of the tourney lists, and created a new class of ship that most people think are underpowered. What are your views, lets colate the success/failure in one place.

As usual every actual view can be covered, go for your closest

 

[Burger]

At first I thought it sucked totally, and that we'd continue to play SFOS rules. But now I've gotten used to the changes and seen how they all work in practice, it's great!
(Apart from the multitude of typos)

 

[WickedE]

I like it. I want to try 3 Whitestars vs 1 Liati.

 

[thePirv]

Waste of time and effort by everyone involved.

Shouldn't of bothered with it at all and just concentrated on making sure V2 works when it hits and doesn't go the way V1 has gone.

And just as an aside, i'm currently reading the BFG rulebook as a JIC if V2 doesn't deliver.

 

[PMOS]

I think Armageddon is a nice little update not more not less!

But i have another question:
Do you all have the same problems with the Armageddon lvl ships?
I think the critical hits, are why too strong against this ship class!!!
In the last game my opponent only shot on my bigone,he scored several cristical hits like:
1:6 no movement
3:4 no special actions
4:4 only fire on 4+
6:2 no damage control
6:3 nofirerig one random arc it was the front arc
so my 1 Armageddon Point Ship,in a 5 War game, gone down in the first round Oo

To aid this problem i would suggest something like this
If u hit a armageddon pl ship and do a critical you have to roll another d6 on a 5+ u really do a critical and at war u would need 3+ for a crit!

This would make the armageddon and war lvl ships worth taking!
What do u guys think?

Gruß Patrick

PS: When will there be an offcial faq for the typos?

 

[Burger]

Vote Redundancy for V2! :lol:
Nicely fixes the problem of large ships being taken down by a lucky crit from one flight of fighters.
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20821

There is a typos thread in Rulesmasters for Armageddon, whether it becomes official or not remains to be seen:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22089

 

[TenaciousB]

Absolute and total failure.

To flog a dead horse, no reasonable support for Dilgar and Drakh players, and has driven me and a few others to consider BFG as an alternative.

All involved should hang their heads in shame for not delivering well enough and for trying to con the Dilgar and Drakh fraternity to part with their money for a book that's not really needed by them.

 

[philogara]

Have voted negative, but have to add the proviso that I have not played a game with it yet, so early opinion.

No plans to buy at present though.

 

[Locutus9956]

Absolute and total failure.

To flog a dead horse, no reasonable support for Dilgar and Drakh players, and has driven me and a few others to consider BFG as an alternative.

All involved should hang their heads in shame for not delivering well enough and for trying to con the Dilgar and Drakh fraternity to part with their money for a book that's not really needed by them.

Well firstly the new rules changes to the game apply to everyone equally and Mongoose and many people had said prior to release that it would NOT be a reprint of the fleet lists. It is and always was intended mainly as an update to SFoS, and the Dilgar and Drakh were both released AFTERWARDS in seperate books, so where you get that anyone was conning Dilgar and Drakh players I dont know.....

The book isnt about new fleets, theres a few new ships sure and the EA splite but first and foremost its a RULES UPDATE. Just because you WANT it to be a new fleet book doesnt make it a con when it never claimed to be....

Oh and lastly: The Dilgar and Drakh didn't get any real attention as to be quite frank they didn't NEED it. They each have a whole fleet book to themselves and are both excellent and (In my oppinion) nicely balanced.

 

[PMOS]

Ok the retundancy version is nice too
Gruß Patrick
Thx Burger!

 

[H]

Absolute and total failure.

To flog a dead horse, no reasonable support for Dilgar and Drakh players, and has driven me and a few others to consider BFG as an alternative.

All involved should hang their heads in shame for not delivering well enough and for trying to con the Dilgar and Drakh fraternity to part with their money for a book that's not really needed by them.

Well firstly the new rules changes to the game apply to everyone equally and Mongoose and many people had said prior to release that it would NOT be a reprint of the fleet lists. It is and always was intended mainly as an update to SFoS, and the Dilgar and Drakh were both released AFTERWARDS in seperate books, so where you get that anyone was conning Dilgar and Drakh players I dont know.....

The book isnt about new fleets, theres a few new ships sure and the EA splite but first and foremost its a RULES UPDATE. Just because you WANT it to be a new fleet book doesnt make it a con when it never claimed to be....

Oh and lastly: The Dilgar and Drakh didn't get any real attention as to be quite frank they didn't NEED it. They each have a whole fleet book to themselves and are both excellent and (In my oppinion) nicely balanced.

OK, STOP the drakh Dilgar debate now please, that was dealt with on another thread and got heated, let it go this time guys. this is a poll to see what your opinions on armageddon were, lets just leave it to that and not Digress

 

[Burger]

It would also be a more valid poll, if only people who've got or at least seen the book and played a few games with the new rules, voted! Like I said, until I'd actually played a few games, I thought the changes had totally screwed up the game. But now I think it is much better than before (even though my main race received a hefty nerf).

 

[TenaciousB]

Absolute and total failure.

To flog a dead horse, no reasonable support for Dilgar and Drakh players, and has driven me and a few others to consider BFG as an alternative.

All involved should hang their heads in shame for not delivering well enough and for trying to con the Dilgar and Drakh fraternity to part with their money for a book that's not really needed by them.

Well firstly the new rules changes to the game apply to everyone equally and Mongoose and many people had said prior to release that it would NOT be a reprint of the fleet lists. It is and always was intended mainly as an update to SFoS, and the Dilgar and Drakh were both released AFTERWARDS in seperate books, so where you get that anyone was conning Dilgar and Drakh players I dont know.....

The book isnt about new fleets, theres a few new ships sure and the EA splite but first and foremost its a RULES UPDATE. Just because you WANT it to be a new fleet book doesnt make it a con when it never claimed to be....

Oh and lastly: The Dilgar and Drakh didn't get any real attention as to be quite frank they didn't NEED it. They each have a whole fleet book to themselves and are both excellent and (In my oppinion) nicely balanced.

OK, STOP the drakh Dilgar debate now please, that was dealt with on another thread and got heated, let it go this time guys. this is a poll to see what your opinions on armageddon were, lets just leave it to that and not Digress

I'm not starting the debate again - I was giving my opinion as to why I voted the expansion as a failure.

And I called it a con because most of the rules were already discussed on the forums here, so I don't NEED the 15 squid book.

 

[philogara]

It would also be a more valid poll, if only people who've got or at least seen the book and played a few games with the new rules, voted! Like I said, until I'd actually played a few games, I thought the changes had totally screwed up the game. But now I think it is much better than before (even though my main race received a hefty nerf).

It would possibly be quite a small (and statiscalyl insignificant?) poll though.

Besides, I hope the opinions of those who don't have it yet are important to Mongoose, especially if they have been put off by what they have heard.

 

[katadder]

so tenacious if the book had one ship for both the dilgar and drakh you would have bought the book? cos besides the rules mot races only get 1 or 2 ships most and thats all you wanted for the drakh/dilgar to go from utterly aweful to keeping yuo happy?

 

[H]

so tenacious if the book had one ship for both the dilgar and drakh you would have bought the book? cos besides the rules mot races only get 1 or 2 ships most and thats all you wanted for the drakh/dilgar to go from utterly aweful to keeping yuo happy?

What did I just say, let it go.... He's made his point, we don't need to argue it or question it, he just feels let down.

 

[Ripple]

And though I have seen the book I do not intend to buy it.

One person in our group has the book and I for the life of me cannot imagine spending the money.

I play/own vorlons, earth and ancients. While it was a rules update, that section is actually relatively small, the majority of the book is taken up by fleet lists and/or the few new ships. Packaging the new shadow/vorlons/ancients and the new earth lists into a hardcover supplement was unecessary. A couple of soft covers for those who wanted the new fleet lists and a 'rules update' would have been fairer to those who do not play or want the new lists.

As to the rules updates and the abandoning of the more balanced tourney lists, well I have been fairly vocal in other threads. But to put our mythbuster friends' mind at ease I have played a couple of games using most of the changes, just do not think it significantly added to the game and opened a huge new set of possible pitfalls of the rock paper scissors variety in fleet selection.

Ripple

 

[Locutus9956]

aaaaanyway as someone said lets leave this to lie now before this goes waaaaaay off topic (incidentally no offence meant TenaciousB )

For the record I voted 'good outweigs the bad' Id have liked to see a somewhat more drastic change to stealth and fighters but overall they ARE better now, and I love the New Vorlon and Shadow rules. Generally speaking Im reasonably unimpressed with the new ships anyway (though I do quite like the Marathon).

Overall I think the book is good value for money but could have been better.

Oh and just because some people have leaked something on the forum doesnt make it a wast of money to buy the book, Mongoose are pretty lax about letting people discuss the contents of their books here but that doesnt make the book worthless!

 

[Shadow Queen]

i think that the proof readers need a poke with a sharp stick, a shadow hunter with a 3" fighter tube come on

 

[B5freak]

I voted "marginal". I like the new Stealth and e-mine mechanics. I like that fighters fire first. For my "don't likes", it's the same old problem of balance. Some ships look good, others are nowhere near as powerful as they'd need to be to justify the points cost.

I also agree with PMOS on critical hits. For our local games, we've adopted a fairly simple mechanic to give larger ships a fighting chance. Battle gets +1 to the Damage Control roll. War gets +1 and can make a second roll (split either between two differenct criticals or both against one, decided before you roll). Armageddon gets +2 to the roll and may make two rolls.

To fix this issue locally, we've also begun playtesting an altered set of fleet lists to try and bring more balance (see link below, select Alternate Lists). This is a purely fan-based list and is in no way official, but I welcome feedback and suggested improvements from anyone who'd like to contribute.