Armageddon: success or Failure?

Is the new Armageddon book a sucess or failure

  • Roaring Success, absolutely love it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Utter dissapointment, not worth 15 pence let alone 15 quid

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Marginal success, the good outweighs the bad

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • marginal dissapointment, not bad, but could be better

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't care, a game is a game, lets just play!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm on the wrong forum, which way to BFG?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
I find it interesting, that the Cover for Armageddon on the Mongoose Page shows Centauri ships, where the Cover of Armageddon I purchase has White Stars which attacks Omega-Xs.

Has Mongoose forgett to change the picture on the Homepage or are there realy many different covers for this book ?
(One for Germany, one for Frane, one for Britain, ... )
 
I like it, My players like it! That's all that matters to me.
As of Armageddon's arrival, we have instituted the new rule changes in the Dilgar Raiders Vs. Vree Conglomerate campaign I'm in, and I must say? This DOES increase the fighters usefulness, though if they fail to do their job they get blown away really quick.
 
Goldritter said:
I find it interesting, that the Cover for Armageddon on the Mongoose Page shows Centauri ships, where the Cover of Armageddon I purchase has White Stars which attacks Omega-Xs.

Has Mongoose forgett to change the picture on the Homepage or are there realy many different covers for this book ?
(One for Germany, one for Frane, one for Britain, ... )

The pictures that go up on the website are often pre-production versions that get changed once the book goes to print.

As for whether Armageddon is a success or a failure - can't answer as it isn't out in the UK yet (apart from some advance copies that a lot of people were lucky enough to get), and I'm anxiously awaiting a box full of Armageddon books today :)
 
mthomason said:
Goldritter said:
I find it interesting, that the Cover for Armageddon on the Mongoose Page shows Centauri ships, where the Cover of Armageddon I purchase has White Stars which attacks Omega-Xs.

Has Mongoose forgett to change the picture on the Homepage or are there realy many different covers for this book ?
(One for Germany, one for Frane, one for Britain, ... )

The pictures that go up on the website are often pre-production versions that get changed once the book goes to print.

As for whether Armageddon is a success or a failure - can't answer as it isn't out in the UK yet (apart from some advance copies that a lot of people were lucky enough to get), and I'm anxiously awaiting a box full of Armageddon books today :)

I got mine last week Matt
 
Ooo, I think I hear something parking outside... maybe even with that box full of goodies for me. It's like christmas nearly every day here! :)
 
Well, Ive looked though the book and Armegeddon is really a major disappointment. Poorly considered changes in balance, and typos galore. I honestly dont know if mongoose has what it takes to make a war games for someone who likes competitive games. Im not buying the book, and I dont think any of the guys a play with regularly are either. Im probably just going to shelf the game untill version 2 shows up next summer. Its too bad 'cause I love the b5 universe, and the system has a nice feel, but I cant live with the utter lack of playtesting for balance.
 
Geekybiker said:
Well, Ive looked though the book and Armegeddon is really a major disappointment. Poorly considered changes in balance, and typos galore. I honestly dont know if mongoose has what it takes to make a war games for someone who likes competitive games. Im not buying the book, and I dont think any of the guys a play with regularly are either. Im probably just going to shelf the game untill version 2 shows up next summer. Its too bad 'cause I love the b5 universe, and the system has a nice feel, but I cant live with the utter lack of playtesting for balance.
Well I'm on you with the competative playtesting and balance but at least Armageddon is a step in the general right direction. Several more steps to go though...
 
Voted marginal sucess - overall I liked Armageddon, and would agree that it's definately a step in the right direction. But like everyone else, the typos really bugged me. That don't damage my play enjoyment (much) as it's pretty self-evident what should be printed, but it's not like they didn't have enough time (and date push backs) to fix it up.

The armageddon ships do seem a little underpowered, but I need to test that more before I can fully say.

Oh, and I didn't like the 10 pages of pictorial in the book, that made me feel a bit cheated.
 
Honestly, I liked the book over all. I do have have some issues and comments:

1). Some races got off WAY better than others. While I am a Narn at heart, I do believe the Narn got off fabulously in this book. The G'Vrahn is a huge improvement over the G'Quan, and I LIKE the G'Quan. It definately wins "Best in Show" in my book. The Ka'Bin'Tak is really just an improved Bin'Tak but it is a NICE improvement. Advanced E-Mines are very nice, the Advanced Mag Gun is scary. Those 2 systems alone make them both better than their predecessors and the G'Vrahn adds speed and maneuverability too.

The Centauri on the other hand seem to have gotten off rather poorly. Liati is a piece of junk. It is an extremely expensive ship for what (little) it does, and it doesn't even look nice. The Adira looks nice but I am not sure it is that vast an improvement over an Octurian. Certainly not over 2 of them. The main beam weapons regressed from 35" to 25"? Yes they gain precise but what the . . . ? Is that the best Drakh engineering can do? The shield gives it a nice staying power but its firepower seems kinda lacking. The Lion of the Galaxy seems to have fallen far under the Drakh.

EA got decent Armageddon ships but lost all of their capable War level ships. Again, what the . . . ? Everything they gained with the Armageddon level ships was lost by the fact they lost the good War level ones.

ISA seems to have maintained its flavor well. I don't think they should have put the gunship and the carrier at the same priority level because that gives them the same problem that the EA has with priority holes. They shoul've slotted the gunship at battle level. Those fighters are so powerful it is criminal. I don't know what they were thinking with that either.

The Minbari feel to me like they regressesd. They went from the very nice Sharlin design to . . . the Neroon. This ship looks to me to be mediocre at lots of things but not good at anything. I can't trully say I'd take this ship over 2 sharlins. I can't call it poor just by looking at it but it doesn't seem to be great either.

The League is . . . well . . . The League. The Fireraptor is as advertised, the same but bigger. The Brakiri/Abbai ship leaves me speechless, and not in a positive way. The Vree basestar is the only one that seems to be an improvement. It has all the traditional Vree virtues but is tougher.

2) Improvements to the Vorlons and the Shadows were long time coming and I think well done in general. They are kinda screwed in low priority games but they are ancients and you can't have everything.

3) As for the other ancients, I think they are reasonably well done. I don't think they are quite as tough as Mongoose seems to think they are but I will have to see in play. (Is it me or are the Krishiac and Mindrider ships reversed?)

4) Other fixes: It feels like Mongoose copped out a bit. They fixed the Var'Nic and a couple of others but failed to take the opportunity address the other glaring problems of other ships which are clearly a bit too strong/weak for their priority. Some races still don't even have a single competent ship at certain priorities.

The G'Quan needs either better rules with regard to E-Mines or reduction of the mine launchers to 4D apiece and an increase of the laser to 4D or 5D . Note in the show, the G'Quan took out a Centauri cruiser with it's LASERS. The G'Toc wrecked a shadow ship with its LASERS. The fact that the lasers are boresight is enough of a handicap that they don't need to make them that weak.

The Narn also need a competent raid level ship. The T'Rann is the best of a bad bunch in my book. The Rothan and Rongoth are in a race to the bottom. The Dak'Kar however, has already reached bottom with the T'Loth not far behind.

Centauri need a better Vorchan. Those things are criminally fragile. As one of the iconic ships from the show it should at least be a solid choice in its weight class. Many of the patrol and skirmish level centauri aren't much better.

EA needs a war level ship. Armageddon took every competent war level ship they had and pushed them up to Armageddon. Note I don't call the Poseidon competent. Flocks of fighters on their own do not a War Level ship make. Give it some missile racks and some more speed and we'll talk again.

5) Rules fixes. Again good start particularly with regard to fighters. I love that fix, simple and efficient. It doesn't turn fighters into super-weapons but improves them from the fodder that they once were.

Stealth wasn't fixed, it was just weakened. The way it works is still illogical and is too dependent on 1 die roll. That's not fair and it certainly isn't fun. Battles with Minbari turn into crapshoots for both players. If stealth isn't breached, the Minbari lives and the other player stews and feels cheated. If it is breached, the Minbari stews (and explodes) and feels cheated.

The simplest fix is to roll stealth per weapon system, and take away all the modifiers except the advanced tech bonus and the scout bonus. This prevents the game from turning on a single die roll and allows stealth to serve as a more even defense for the Minbari along the lines of the Drakh shields or the Ancients' armor or auto-repair, without requiring excessive bookkeeping.

E-Mines got a minor fix but not enough. Honestly, the -1 bothered me less than the fact that you can't switch types. The various types have such situational use in general that it is ridiculous that you can't switch during a scenario. Honestly, I think that the launchers should be reduced to 4D (increase the laser on the G'Quan and increase the Ion Torps on the Dag'Kar) and they should be allowed to switch, perhaps by paying an extra turn to load the different round. If it is that simple to change them (as the book says) why can't you simply keep several different types in storage on the ship and load the type you need. That gives them actual tactical flexibility without making them overpowering.

That my $.02. (Actually, that was probably more than $.02). I generally liked the book, it just feels like there could've been more and parts of it could've been better thought out. As for typos and errors, c'mon. Cut them some slack. Yes fewer errors would've been nice, but Mongoose's error rate is no worse than any other game product I have purchased. I can live with some errors in return for not having the book price increased to cover more proofreaders. Random House products had better be flawless, I can except mistakes from smaller publishers.

Tzarevitch
 
The scary thing is that the biggest upgrade in a ship is an afterthought in the FAQ.

The Brikorta got a 2AD AP Beam DD weapon. It now has the best beam in the Brakiri fleet and with the fighter rule change, may have made the Ikorta obsolete.


Dave
 
Davesaint said:
The scary thing is that the biggest upgrade in a ship is an afterthought in the FAQ.

The Brikorta got a 2AD AP Beam DD weapon. It now has the best beam in the Brakiri fleet and with the fighter rule change, may have made the Ikorta obsolete.


Dave
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that in the SFOS FAQ anyway?

EDIT: OK I'll correct myself.. I'm wrong. Ignore me...
 
Burger said:
Davesaint said:
The scary thing is that the biggest upgrade in a ship is an afterthought in the FAQ.

The Brikorta got a 2AD AP Beam DD weapon. It now has the best beam in the Brakiri fleet and with the fighter rule change, may have made the Ikorta obsolete.


Dave
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that in the SFOS FAQ anyway?

EDIT: OK I'll correct myself.. I'm wrong. Ignore me...

:D
 
The book exists to support the release of a new series of miniatures. Nothing wrong with that...so long as the models are not oversized, overpriced, clumsy, crude and grindingly unimaginitive. Unfortunately....

Some of the changes are good - the jump point scatter rules, the upgraded Omega and Hyperion, the Skirmish PL Oracle.

I can live with the new EA lists, but it's a shame the opportunity was not taken to reflect changes in ships such as the Hyperion, while printng the same set of stats several times.

The colour pictures are very pretty, but an unkind mind might be thinking 'filler'.

I viscerally detest the 'fighters fire first' rule.

All in all, if Armageddon hadn't happened, I wouldn't have missed it.
 
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