Argan Argar as war god...

[Cleombrotus]

Trolls worship Argan Argar, but humans worship Argar Argan.

That's a big bag of cack, that is.

Surely there are slightly more inspired and atmospheric gloranthan ideas? Did someone get paid to think that up and get a pat on the back and a bag of nuts..?

I bet it was Greg...

 

[atgxtg]

Trollkin lack the discipline required, and on the whole most of them lack the brains to fight in an intelligent and organized fashion. AA Trollkin units have been described as 'mobs' for good reason.

Now, that's not to say that there may be one or two elite trollkin units kicking around on the Shadow Plateau or Halikiv but these would be very much the exception rather than the rule - for one thing training expendible yet exceptional trollkin to this level may give them bad ideas - I can see the Mothers being dead set against it.

Jeff

I agree with Jeff K. Trollkin are too undisciplined, too stupid and too cowardly to fight in a phalanx. They are a mob with spears and little more.

Jeff

That's probably why in the past, Trollkin were usually used as skirmishers and missile troops. Dark Troll infantry, backed up with trollkin.

I suspect the toughest thing about fighting them is that unlike most armies, they don't mind fighting at night. That would be a tremendous edge to maneuvering and missile use.

 

[richaje]

Trolls worship Argan Argar, but humans worship Argar Argan.

That's a big bag of cack, that is.

Surely there are slightly more inspired and atmospheric gloranthan ideas? Did someone get paid to think that up and get a pat on the back and a bag of nuts..?

I bet it was Greg...

No idea. I didn't work on it.

Jeff

 

[Voriof]

That's probably why in the past, Trollkin were usually used as skirmishers and missile troops. Dark Troll infantry, backed up with trollkin.

I suspect the toughest thing about fighting them is that unlike most armies, they don't mind fighting at night. That would be a tremendous edge to maneuvering and missile use.

That, and that their commanders view them as utterly expendable. Worse, they often view themselves that way. Again, this sort of outlook hampers one trying to create elite, disciplined troops. All in all, life sucks for trollkin but death is, apparently, even worse (cf Black Eater).

Jeff

 

[Sinisalo]

lol I've started a flamewar about trollkin.

No seriously, you've never heard the tramp of hobnailed trollkin Hoplites as they march in step through your village?

I can see it. I really can!

Even better - trolls on the flanks while their inferior children do the meat grinding in the center. Oh the humiliation

 

[Blackyinkin]

Hi,

In Uz the Trolls of Glorantha (Uttog) there is a subcult of Argan Argar specifucally dedicated to a spear wielding, trollkin horde, I don't have my copy to hand, but it was knows as somthing like Sticker the Spearkin subcult, its magics helped trollkin fight together more effectively and use spear tactics more effectively.

Simon

 

[Sinisalo]

Hi,

In Uz the Trolls of Glorantha (Uttog) there is a subcult of Argan Argar specifucally dedicated to a spear wielding, trollkin horde, I don't have my copy to hand, but it was knows as somthing like Sticker the Spearkin subcult, its magics helped trollkin fight together more effectively and use spear tactics more effectively.

Simon

Hahahahaha it's all coming together. I can see it now Sun Dome Templars vs Trollkin Hoplites. What glory is to be had there.

Can you post what skills, feats and affinities are taught by this subcult because, Elmal's Teeth, I feel a conversion coming on.

 

[kintire]

Trollkin cannot use the overlong spear of a phalanx, so they cannot use them against cavalry or four feet away.

The Macedonian Sarissa was 16 feet long. If a 6ft human can manage a 16ft spear, a 4ft trollkin can probably manage a 12ft one.

Sure, they can operate during the night, but I cannot think of any human general stupid enough to order a cavalry charge during the night. So the idea of using them like a human phalanx is unrealistic (and untrollish).

The phalanx does not have to sit around waiting for a cavalry charge. It's an aggressive formation designed to roll over its opposition, not a static defensive hedge.


Edit: coz mi spellin sux

 

[Voriof]

Trollkin cannot use the overlong spear of a phalanx, so they cannot use them against cavalry or four feet away.

The Macedonian Sarissa was 16 feet long. If a 6ft human can manage a 16ft spear, a 4ft trollkin can probably manage a 12ft one.

Mass. Leverage. Cube-square function. Probably not.

And as for the hoplite armour, one might note that trolls, on the whole, are not known for their metalworking. They have some, yes, but it is certainly not their forte. Though I think that trolls and trollkin in chitin armour are damned nifty looking - and it keeps the Timmit population down.

Jeff

 

[RosenMcStern]

Sure, they can operate during the night, but I cannot think of any human general stupid enough to order a cavalry charge during the night. So the idea of using them like a human phalanx is unrealistic (and untrollish).

The phalanx does not have to sit around waiting for a cavalry charge. It's an aggressive formation designed to roll over its opposition, not a static defensive hedge.

Ah, you mean that the idea is more realistic because the trollkin are going to actively pursue their enemies?

Working as a phalanx is a matter of morale and discipline, something that Trollkin do not have. Let's just put it straight: if trollkin can do it, then ducks can do it, too, no doubt. Would you believe in the Duck Phalanx?

 

[richaje]

Working as a phalanx is a matter of morale and discipline, something that Trollkin do not have. Let's just put it straight: if trollkin can do it, then ducks can do it, too, no doubt. Would you believe in the Duck Phalanx?

If trollkin can do it, ducks can do it ten times as well. Believe me, there are few things in Glorantha more pathetic than a Second Age trollkin. Heck, the Mothers still aren't sure if they did the right thing even letting them live!

There might be one or two extraordinary trollkin around (Neep is a good Third Age example), but by and large a competent trollkin is either (1) killed, or (2) defined as a troll.

Jeff

 

[soltakss]

Trollkin cannot use the overlong spear of a phalanx, so they cannot use them against cavalry or four feet away.

But, horses close in a charge (that's what they do) and the trollkin that survive the initial charge stick them full of spears, or the front rank sets spears and waits for horsey-shish-kebab.

Besides, no sensible Troll leader would ever field trollkin armies on the surface, because sunlight autiomatically demoralizes them. Sure, they can operate during the night, but I cannot think of any human general stupid enough to order a cavalry charge during the night. So the idea of using them like a human phalanx is unrealistic (and untrollish).

But, trollkin are used in spear units, at least that's what the sources say. Don't forget that Argan Argar is also the Son of Night and God of Surface Darkness, so he can call upon a lot of spells that dim the light and allow trollkin to operate in the daytime. All you really need is a shadow (not a shade) sitting on the top of the trollkin unit and they're right as rain.

Also, trollkin units are often used dfensively on the Shadow Plateau and in Shadows Dance, two places noted for their shadowy nature where the sun doesn't shine as brightly.

On the other hand, two warriors wielding a spear can operate in the same narrow passage where there is room for only one single warrior wielding a slashing weapon. This is the most likely usage for Argan Argari trollkin (the 300 trollkin, anyone?)

Possibly. They would be good in a tunnel where a trollkin unit would be sandwiched together with nowhere to flee and a big troll behind them shouting encouragement.

Also, they'd never run out of rations and don't need to dispose of their dead.

 

[soltakss]

Working as a phalanx is a matter of morale and discipline, something that Trollkin do not have. Let's just put it straight: if trollkin can do it, then ducks can do it, too, no doubt. Would you believe in the Duck Phalanx?

Nah, the Duck God didn't steal the secret of spears and phalanx fighting from anyone.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

No, the spear goes up the duck, and then one bastes the rotating fowl....

Regards

p.s. it's the duck sub-cult of B'nard Maw-thews.

 

[Sinisalo]

Nah, the Duck God didn't steal the secret of spears and phalanx fighting from anyone.

What Duck God? Humakt? There are no Humakti spear regiments? He's the god of war for the local region, for chrissake, of course there are Duck hoplites. And what's in the local neighbourhood of the Inland Marsh but a sun dome temple. The local derby Duruz vs Templar shield-push matches are legendary, or so i've been told.

 

[RosenMcStern]

Possibly. They would be good in a tunnel where a trollkin unit would be sandwiched together with nowhere to flee and a big troll behind them shouting encouragement.

Well, if "The first of your wretch'd scum that turns and flees becomes my mid-day snack!" is what you call encouragement...

 

[Sinisalo]

Well, if "The first of your wretch'd scum that turns and flees becomes my mid-day snack!" is what you call encouragement...

Exactly who needs discipline and morale when you're more scared of the troll behind you than the enemy in front of you

 

[Voriof]

Nah, the Duck God didn't steal the secret of spears and phalanx fighting from anyone.

What Duck God? Humakt? There are no Humakti spear regiments? He's the god of war for the local region, for chrissake, of course there are Duck hoplites. And what's in the local neighbourhood of the Inland Marsh but a sun dome temple. The local derby Duruz vs Templar shield-push matches are legendary, or so i've been told.

Perhaps. However, Humakti are- regardless of spelling - are very much not known for their mastery of the spear. And my understanding of the Yelmalions is that they are notoriously speciesist duck-haters.

Jeff

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

And my understanding of the Yelmalions is that they are notoriously speciesist duck-haters.

Or, they simply love using the deep-golden/flame coloured "sun citrus" fruit in cooking....

Best regards

 

[Voriof]

Dear All,

And my understanding of the Yelmalions is that they are notoriously speciesist duck-haters.

Or, they simply love using the deep-golden/flame coloured "sun citrus" fruit in cooking....

Best regards

That works for me. Which reminds me, I have to get some Christmas shopping done. I'm cooking for the tribe this year.

Jeff