Are two-handed weapons overpowered in Conan?

[Trodax]

After some discussions in other threads, I’ve started to think about two-handed weapons. The thing is I’ve got this nagging feeling that they might be a tad overpowered in Conan, and I’d like to hear what you all think about them. Please note that I’m definitely not saying; “OMGWTF, this is SO broken!”, I just want to hear what you’re experiences and opinions are.

So, what’s so great with a two-hander then? Well they have high AP and base damage (2d10 for Greatsword!), you get to add 1,5 times your Strength bonus to damage (and possibly AP, not sure on that) and, last but not least, you get a very nice discount on the Power Attack feat. Now in Conan, where armour counts as damage reduction and you have Massive Damage that actually matters (as opposed to D&D), this ability to dish out high-damage attacks is very advantageous. In D&D, the total damage output is what matters, so having two attacks each dealing 1d10 damage is roughly equivalent to a single attack dealing 2d10. In Conan though, that 2d10 attack is just so much better. (On the same note I would argue that a Critical of 20/x3 is slightly better than 19-20/x2 in Conan, while in D&D, the reverse is true.)

I think especially the rules for Massive Damage make the two-handers really shine. For example, consider a Strength 18 guy armed with a Broadsword. On a regular hit (1d10+4) he will have no chance of reaching Massive Damage, while on a Critical hit (2d10+8 ), he will have a fairly good chance (45%).
Now consider the same guy with a Greatsword. He will, on a regular hit (2d10+6), have an OK chance of reaching Massive Damage (28%), while on a Critical (4d10+12), he’s virtually guaranteed to inflict Massive Damage, and also has good chances to inflict so much damage as to make that Fortitude save very hard to pass.
Now, this little example doesn’t take armour into account, but I would think that adding armour would tip the balance even more in favour of the two-hander.

So what do you rules-wise folks around here think?
I might very well be wrong on this; fighting with two weapons does give you a lot of extra attacks at no penalty, and that +4 to Parry you get from a large shield is also pretty sweet. But I still think the guy with Strength 18, Power Attack and a Bardiche is pretty hard to beat. 2d10+10 on every single hit at only a -2 penalty. Wow.

(I could also add that a house-rule I’m sort of considering (if somebody doesn’t make me change my mind :wink: ), is to remove the discount on Power Attack for two-handed weapons. This discount was introduced in D&D3.5 to make two-handers a little more viable. I’m not sure its really needed in Conan.)

 

[Diabolus]

Costs you use of a shield...

Maybe you slice the first opponent in twain with a massive damage check (and maybe a second with Cleave :twisted, but that shield would have come in handy afterwards with any enemy that remains.

Maybe you miss and you're standing there with a big sword while two guys with tower shields and shortswords cut you up like a Roman blanket party on a Gaul.

Yes, if you go all-out offensive with big 2h weapons and judicious use of Power Attack then when you hit you will put on the big hurt. However, you may miss more often (loss of Attack Bonus from Power Attack) and be more vulnerable to counterattack (either loss of a shield if using Parry for DV or lack of heavy armor if a barbarian using a greatsword or other nasty two-hander).

Compared with two-weapon combat there's advantages and disadvantages to most weapon types and the guy with two weapons can "mix it up" if he likes. Two-weapon combat always required greater skill to pull off successfully in any event. In most cases you would be better off with one weapon than two, either a two-hander (with reach or a big damager) or with a shield.

It's always a tradeoff.

D&D rules are notorious for making fighters into these two-weapon cuisinarts that disdain armor for magic bracers and whatnot. I prefer the more visceral feel of the Conan rules. If you're wielding two weapons, you better know what the heck you're doing and you better be able to dodge the enemy.

I understand where you're coming from honestly, but I don't think it's so much 2h versus two-weapon fighting, but how offensively you fight.

 

[Bregales]

I don't know. I'm not referencing the rules book, and I've been awaiting my shipment of Hyboria's Fiercest for a VERY long time now (what I'm hinting is I always put my foot in my mouth when I talk rules w/o actually citing the rule w/ pg.#, etc.), but I still believe that 2-h fighting gives you power at the expense of aim.

I work on stage (theatrical) fencing: work with actors to teach them how to fight a la Cyrano, the Three Musketeers or Shakespearan plays like "Romeo and Juliet", so I realize that wielding a broadsword is very different than a rapier. What we get across is that when you grab that rapier 2-h, you're making a savage/desperate strike, cut, or bracing a thrust against a charging opponent at the cost of agility. I usually like to believe that finess fighting isn't possible when fighting 2-h, but I'm not looking up the rules on this....

Oh, that and, as has already been pointed out, you don't get the benefit of a shield. Most players who are capitalizing on 2-h attacks are either rules lawyers or power players, like some of my guys, or just really have this picture of Ragnir the Raging Redhead in their minds. The former memorizes all rules to manipulate to their advantage, the latter just loves the imagery. Oh, the hell with it, I'm not really saying anything useful, might as well finally shut up and submit this rambling diatribe.

 

[bradius]

One word: Bardiche.

 

[Trodax]

D&D rules are notorious for making fighters into these two-weapon cuisinarts that disdain armor for magic bracers and whatnot.

You really think so? I've always seen armour as pretty mandatory in D&D. Since magic items are such a big deal, I've also looked at weapon+shield as the best "fighting style", simply because you then have the opportunity to have both +5 armour and a +5 shield, boosting your AC skyhigh.

I work on stage (theatrical) fencing: work with actors to teach them how to fight a la Cyrano, the Three Musketeers or Shakespearan plays like "Romeo and Juliet", so I realize that wielding a broadsword is very different than a rapier. What we get across is that when you grab that rapier 2-h, you're making a savage/desperate strike, cut, or bracing a thrust against a charging opponent at the cost of agility.

Yeah, maybe I should have made this more clear in my original post; I'm looking at this almost entirely from a game-balance perspective. While having rules that are somewhat realistic is of course nice, I'm more concerned that some sort of balance is maintained. I really want the three fighting styles (shield, two-hander and two-weapon fighting) to be roughly balanced (different of course, but still equal in the eyes of the Munchkin). And, as I said, maybe they are; thats what I'm trying to figure out here.

I usually like to believe that finess fighting isn't possible when fighting 2-h, but I'm not looking up the rules on this....

Well, there is no such general rule, although the high-damage two-handed weapons that I'm mostly thinking of here (Greatsword, Bardiche etc.) are of course non-finesseable.
Actually the Broadsword and the Warsword can be used with finesse only when held in two hands.

Oh, the hell with it, I'm not really saying anything useful, might as well finally shut up and submit this rambling diatribe.

Hey, there ain't nothing wrong with a little rambling. I'm happy for the input.

 

[Trodax]

One word: Bardiche.

Yeah, even if two-handed weapons in general aren't overpowered, I still think the Bardiche might be a little much. I mean its better than a Greatsword (better AP), much cheaper and doesn't require Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

 

[Diabolus]

The Bardiche (or "greataxe") is certainly an awesome weapon for dealing damage, and although it is much cheaper and doesn't require an Exotic Weapon Proficiency, it criticals half as much as a Greatsword (20/x3 vs 19-20/x2).

So be glad it's got a good AP, as you're going to need every bit of it to get through an opponent that's heavily armored, because you're not getting around it.

It's also not as hard, but that's only a threat if your enemies like to sunder your weapons.

EDIT: I was mistaking the greatsword with the warsword initially in it's finesseability - it can make Pointed damage, but is not finesssable.

 

[Diabolus]

D&D rules are notorious for making fighters into these two-weapon cuisinarts that disdain armor for magic bracers and whatnot.

You really think so? I've always seen armour as pretty mandatory in D&D. Since magic items are such a big deal, I've also looked at weapon+shield as the best "fighting style", simply because you then have the opportunity to have both +5 armour and a +5 shield, boosting your AC skyhigh.

Shield = Deflection Bonus. There are other places to get a Deflection Bonus through magic items (a rarity of any sort in Conan). Do that and you can jack up your offense considerably by adding a second weapon.

 

[Hyborian Apeman]

Shield = Deflection Bonus. There are other places to get a Deflection Bonus through magic items (a rarity of any sort in Conan). Do that and you can jack up your offense considerably by adding a second weapon.

In D&D shields are a shield bonus (I am pretty sure, but my rules track record hasn't been very good as of late). So you can have +5 armor, +5 shield, and a +5 ring of protection (for deflection bonus) to have a killer AC. Fighting with 2 weapons or two handed can subtract up to 7 from your AC, which is pretty painful.

 

[Stygian Overlord]

Anyone who has played 3.5 extensively knows that two handed weapons outshine everything else by a large margin. A starting character with an 18-20 strength and a Bardiche will make everyone else in a Conan game look like pinatas. Nevermind the fact that at 1st level throwing around 2d10+9 damage attacks is just BRUTAL, it never ever balances with the other options. The higher level the players get the more often 2h weapon attacks breaking the 20 pt barrier will make a difference when the 2h fighter is cause people to save or die every round and the shield fighter has to hit them 5-10 times to kill them.

 

[Trodax]

The Bardiche (or "greataxe") is certainly an awesome weapon for dealing damage, and although it is much cheaper and doesn't require an Exotic Weapon Proficiency, it criticals half as much as a Greatsword (20/x3 vs 19-20/x2).

I wouldn't necessarily say that a critical of 20/x3 is any worse off than 19-20/x2. They have the same average damage output, its just that 20/x3 piles that damage into fewer, more hard-hitting hits. With the Massive Damage rules, this is an advantage in Conan. (Same point as to why I think two-handed weapons are so good.) Therefore, for example, I would consider a Battleaxe (damage 1d10, 20/x3) slightly better in the damage department than a Broadsword (damage 1d10, 19-20/x2).

For the Bardiche/Greatsword things are a bit different though, I'll admit. Because these weapons have so high regular damage, the 20/x3 critical might be a bit of an overkill.
Cause lets face it, a critical from a Bardiche will kill most of anything it hits. A Strength 14 warrior will on a critical hit (6d10+9) against the heaviest armour in the game (DR 12) on average force a DC 25 Fortitude save or die. Add a few points of Strength to the Bardiche-wielder or take away some of that armour, and you'll get a save thats almost impossible to pass.
Its just that the Greatswords critical of 19-20/x2 might often do the job just as good, and twice as often. So, yeah, maybe you're right in that the Greatsword is a bit better off there.

See, I just went of on a little ramble of my own.

In D&D shields are a shield bonus (I am pretty sure, but my rules track record hasn't been very good as of late). So you can have +5 armor, +5 shield, and a +5 ring of protection (for deflection bonus) to have a killer AC. Fighting with 2 weapons or two handed can subtract up to 7 from your AC, which is pretty painful.

Yeah, this was exactly my thinking as well.

 

[Turim]

Overpowered is a relative term. IMHO two-handed fighting is "better" than weapon/shield, two-weapon, and archery. But I am of the opinion that the latter three are underpowered, although archery can be greatly strengthened by tactical positioning. Monster Slayer and the much-maligned Explosive Power might make up for some of the weaknesses of the one-handed weapons. The Two-Weapon Strike (HF) feat may help the two-weapon warrior.

I think some people might be thinking in D&D 3.5 terms when it comes to balance in Conan. I've seen several posts suggesting that Defensive Blast, Death Touch, Sneak Attack, and Explosive Power (among others) are overpowered. I believe these abilities set the standard for Conan. And there are several other abilities arguably "broken" by D&D 3.5 standards.

Dread Serpent can put a 20th-level character in a deadly lock she has little hope of resisting or breaking herself. Greater Telekinesis can fling up to 20 globes of demon-fire, if the sorcerer is wealthy and high level. With Projection (SoS) the sorcerer can attack many enemies safely with Hypnotism spells from afar. Yimsha's Carpet can potentially lock down and render unconscious large numbers of mighty opponents.

Mounted combat with Spirited Charge will likely kill most creatures subject to Massive Damage. Crushing Grip makes grappling deadly against humans. The noble ability Do You Know Who I Am?/Absolute Power has an insane DC at high levels, and 20th-level non-scholar/non-noble enemies had better roll a natural 20.

I believe it is a conscious decision to greatly favour offense over defense in Conan, relative to D&D 3.5. A "hero" (10th-level character, good stats, built right) in Conan who wins initiative against opponents of similar power in close quarters should relatively often manage to drop one or two of them the first round through Massive Damage or spells.

Someone from Mongoose (name escapes me) confirmed in a thread that you get 1.5 Str to AP when wielding a weapon two-handed.

Shields give shield bonuses in Conan and D&D 3.5. In D&D 3.0 they gave an armor bonus that stacked with regular armour. Another incentive to use a shield in D&D in addition to the AC is the special abilities that can be added to them.

In addition to what has already been said about bardiche versus greatsword I'd like to add that the greatsword can be Akbitanan, while the bardiche might, depending on the DM. Even if the DM allows Akbitanan bardiches, they might not get the improved Hardness/hit points/break resistance with Mighty Blow. The greatsword is piercing as well as slashing. This could make a difference if the wielder ever meets a monster resistant to slashing. Also, it might be easier to use under water. Lastly, this allows it to be made of silver. Since the bardiche has a wooden shaft, it could potentially be subject to wood-eating oozes and similar attacks, if they exist in Conan. The greatsword has a pommel. Useful in a grapple, if you need a bludgeoning attack, or if you have Stunning Attack. The pommel can be made of silver as a weak backup against aberrations and demons. The improved crit range of the greatsword is better with combat maneuvers like Decapitating Slash and Punishing Strike (HF). Hardness is 10 compared to 7 for the bardiche. Finally, the greatsword is 1 lb. lighter, which might make a tiny difference in very, very rare situations .

The bardiche can be used with Hooking Parry, and its stronger criticals are better with Explosive Power and Coup de Grace.

 

[Trodax]

Great post Turim!

I think some people might be thinking in D&D 3.5 terms when it comes to balance in Conan. I've seen several posts suggesting that Defensive Blast, Death Touch, Sneak Attack, and Explosive Power (among others) are overpowered. I believe these abilities set the standard for Conan. And there are several other abilities arguably "broken" by D&D 3.5 standards.

Good point. Conan is of course a much deadlier and "unbalanced" game than D&D (which is balanced almost to a scientific degree). I'm down with that (hey, thats what the Fate points are for right :wink: ). However, I don't want two-handed fighting to be the ultimate combat tactic. Its OK if its deadly, but I don't want it to be "best", if that makes any sense.
You're probably right though, in that I might be making to many comparisons to D&D.

Someone from Mongoose (name escapes me) confirmed in a thread that you get 1.5 Str to AP when wielding a weapon two-handed.

Yeah, I know I've heard that to, don't remember where though (might have been on the old Rulesmaster forum).

In addition to what has already been said about bardiche versus greatsword I'd like to add that the greatsword can be Akbitanan, while the bardiche might, depending on the DM. Even if the DM allows Akbitanan bardiches, they might not get the improved Hardness/hit points/break resistance with Mighty Blow. The greatsword is piercing as well as slashing. This could make a difference if the wielder ever meets a monster resistant to slashing. Also, it might be easier to use under water. Lastly, this allows it to be made of silver. Since the bardiche has a wooden shaft, it could potentially be subject to wood-eating oozes and similar attacks, if they exist in Conan. The greatsword has a pommel. Useful in a grapple, if you need a bludgeoning attack, or if you have Stunning Attack. The pommel can be made of silver as a weak backup against aberrations and demons. The improved crit range of the greatsword is better with combat maneuvers like Decapitating Slash and Punishing Strike (HF). Hardness is 10 compared to 7 for the bardiche. Finally, the greatsword is 1 lb. lighter, which might make a tiny difference in very, very rare situations .

Damn, thats a long list of small bonuses for the Greatsword! While I don't think any of these would matter much in most situations, maybe you're right in that they all weigh in together to make the Greatsword come out on top.

 

[InsomNY]

Turim --

I've got to take issue with some of the so-called advantages you see in the greatsword.

1. Nobody in their right mind is going to have a greatsword made out of silver, except as a wall-hanger to decorate the castle. It's not coming on an adventure.

2. Fighting underwater isn't going to happen much, since nobody can breathe down there. Characters will be shedding weight so they can swim, and fighting either with a dagger or bare hands.

3. Wood-eating oozes? You are kidding, right?

I don't mean to cramp your style, and I know that you've had some great ideas on these boards, but none of the above seems like much of a factor in any Conan game I could imagine playing in or GMing.

Yes, the greatsword is overall a better weapon, but that's reflected in the price, the Akbitanan possibility (also a price issue) and the "cool factor" -- toting around a halberd as your weapon of choice is going to get you laughed at as a town-guard wannabe. Sure, you can split the offender from crown to crotch in one swipe, but you'll look like a fool until they arrest and hang you, when you'll look like a different tarot card altogether.

 

[Bregales]

Oversimplifying the matter:
pole-arms were made to be given to largely under-trained armies to keep the other army at more than arm's length, make up for the height/mass difference cavalry posed, and psychologically form unit bonds.

Swords were only kept by those trained to use them, were elitist symbols of strength and power.

When the Swiss came up with the halbard in the latter middle ages, they pretty much spelled doom for the mounted knight (of course, gunpowder did them off, but the halbard, man-catchers & what not in a trained army did away with the mystique of invincibility that the armored knight had for amost a couple millenia). Now this Hyborian world is make-believe, fantasy, but it's weapons are based on what came from history. If some joe dirt squabbler is walking around with a bardiche, why doesn't anyone ask why? But said squabbler has a sword, well most Hyborians wouldn't look twice,unless he's coming straight at them. That's just how this world is flavored. The guards in "God in the Bowl" the soldiery in Aquilonia's armies: they have polearms, bardiches, etc. Everyone else has a sword in Hyboria.

 

[Turim]

Trodax: A certain balance between the classes and fighting styles isn't a bad thing IMHO, as long as the rules favour offence, to retain the deadly feel of Conan. Some things, like Yimsha's Carpet and Explosive Power (especially at low-medium levels) seem good even by Conan standards.

If you don't want two-handed fighting to be better than weapon/shield and two-weapon, I believe you'll have to houserule something. Whether you weaken two-handed fighting, or strengthen the other two, depends on how powerful you want warriors to be, compared to sorcerers and thieves. Obviously this is a complicated issue, but a sorcerer or thief with several levels under his belt should be able to kill people quite often with spells and Massive Damage saves. The weapon/shield or two-weapon guy will have a hard time forcing difficult Massive Damage saves, perhaps even with x2 criticals or Power Attack (at low levels). Two-Weapon Strike (HF) probably strengthens the two-weapon warrior considerably, though.

I've tried to find the post confiming 1.5 Str to AP, but no luck. I believe it was written in 2005, and I'm almost positive the guy had Mongoose in his name. I think it was a post on the Conan forum, since I haven't frequented the Rulesmaster forum much, but I may be wrong.

I don't necesseraly think that the greatsword is better, but it has some advantages, especially for an advanced user. If I'm going to equip an army of low-level soldiers, the bardiche wins hands down. This fits well with what Bregales said about their historical role in his post.

InsomNY: I should have been more clear about this in my post. I don't consider many of the benefits I listed to be significant, but the completist in me wanted to include all of them anyway .
1. On this one I guess we'll just have to disagree. I'm pretty sure that some players in some campaigns will try to get one of these as a backup, once they get wind of the resistances of aberrations and demons. It might attract attention though, so a sheath is a must.
2. Raven's Rules for Sorcery has a spell for underwater breathing if I'm not mistaken, and her rules seem to have been adopted by some people on this board. Our party also ends up in the water from time to time, but I agree it will rarely be an issue, especially with the default sorcery rules.
3. Granted, this will likely never happen. The reason I even thought of this is that from levels 1-8 our party has encountered 4 "oozes" on separate occasions. I couldn't tell you if they ate wood and not metal, as circumstances conspired to prevent me from discovering all their eating habits. They did have a taste for our warriors, though .

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Though I felt my ears burning.

Yes I created a spell for underwater breathing for a Deep One inspired adventure, but I also created rules for functioning underwater that would negate the usefulness of practically any two handed weapon- except a Trident. See below from ‘Conan and Cthulhu’

All non-Aquatic creatures are considered Flat Footed in water unless the creature possesses the Water Snake Feat. [see below]

In addition all slashing and piercing weapons of Light [dagger, hatchet] fight with no penalty. Only dedicated one-handed piercing weapons like spears also fight with no penalty. One handed weapons that both piercing and slashing damage [like arming swords and broadswords] fight with a -1 penalty. Dedicated one armed slashing weapons [like axes] have a -2 penalty. All two handed weapons and bludgeoning weapons have a -4 penalty, except for a Trident, which I imported into the game...into the hands of the Deep Ones, as well as a unique polearm for their 'royal guard'. :twisted:

Trident statistics: Two Handed Exotic Melee Weapon
Cost: 35 sl
Base Damage: 2d8
AP: 3
Critical: x3
Hardness 10
Hit Points: 7
Weight: 5 lbs.
Notes: May be used underwater without penalty

Unarmed combat [such as biting] is unaffected save for the loss of STR bonus below. Note that Dafari and those with the Teeth Gleaming Feat gain an odd advantage here, being able to do lethal damage with their teeth. Note also that the DR 2 scales of a Deep One make it almost impossible to harm by unarmed attack though. Strangling works though- but you have to aim for the gills of a Deep One, not the throat.

I also remove DEX bonus to Initiative [can't be fast on your feet in water], STR bonus to AP and attack damage [nothing to push against] and whatever cruelty I can I think is possible.

Note though in response, the Water Snake Feat in Pirate Isles now removes most of these penalties as it meant to represent an almost total familiarity with a water environment. Anyone with the Feat is no longer considered Flat Footed underwater, able to use DEX bonus to Initiative and STR bonus to AP melee damage and can their full Move value underwater. All penalties with weapons are still in force though.

By using the above rules, anyone weilding a Bardiche or a Greatsword underwater suffers a -4 to their attack as it a two handed weapon. You want to go swimming with a two handed weapon, invest in a Trident.

P.S. Anyone wanting the spell mentioned above- here it is. See ‘Raven’s Rules of Sorcery v1.1’ for more information or send me a pm for the master file and to be put on the “Raven’s Gate Press: mailing list. The “Elements and Forces Sphere” mentioned below roughly translates to the Predigitation(sp?) school of magic in Mongoose’s core rules, though I’d argue that you could put it in the Nature school as well.

New Spell

Breath of Water [Advanced Spell of the Elements and Forces Sphere]

Power Point Cost: 2
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Self or Touch
Target: One person
Duration: One hour/level
Saving Throw: N/A
Perquisites: One basic spell of the Elemental Sphere, four ranks of Knowledge (arcana) or Heal, Magic Attack Bonus +1 or greater
Magic Attack Roll: DC 10

Breath of water spell allows a air-breathing creature the ability to breath water as easily as air for the duration of the spell. Note that the spell does not confer resistance to the temperatures and pressures that can be found in water. Neither does it provide movement of any sort- the affected creature must swim normally if they have no access to another form of movement. The character must also make the hourly Fortitude check against fatigue when swimming as normal.

 

[argo]

Is THF the top dog in Conan? Yeah, the massive damage threshold, 2:1 PA and DR issues plus Fighting on the Run make the ability to deal high-damage single hits a massive advantage.

Is THF overpowered in Conan? No I don't think so. A key element in the Conan RPG is the ability to meet a variety of challenges. Sword 'n Board givs you a critical defensive advantage when outnumbered (ie: when you fear a massive-damage blow in retaliation) and TWF is superior for dealing with large numbers of weak/unarmored foes with its higher rate of attack. THF is best suited to dealing with single tough opponents.

And of course there are strategies that do not require THF to work, sneak-attacking TWF comes to mind.

Hope that helps.

 

[Trodax]

....plus Fighting on the Run make the ability to deal high-damage single hits a massive advantage.

Just to clarify; in what way do you mean that Fighting on the Run is especially advantageous for two-handed wielders? I understand that for two-weapon fighters Fighting on the Run isn't as good since they must go Full Attack to reap the benefits of their fighting style. Is that what you mean, or am I missing something?

TWF is superior for dealing with large numbers of weak/unarmored foes with its higher rate of attack. THF is best suited to dealing with single tough opponents.

This is of course a very good point. I have probably been thinking a little to much in terms of fighting single opponents with tons of hp and high DR.

Thanks for your input!

 

[argo]

....plus Fighting on the Run make the ability to deal high-damage single hits a massive advantage.

Just to clarify; in what way do you mean that Fighting on the Run is especially advantageous for two-handed wielders? I understand that for two-weapon fighters Fighting on the Run isn't as good since they must go Full Attack to reap the benefits of their fighting style. Is that what you mean, or am I missing something?

Yeah, thats prety much it. THF is strong because of synergy with Power Attack and PA is optimal for single big hits comming off your highest attack bonus. Or rather I should say that using PA tends to kill your chances of landing itterative attacks: you are trading your chances to land a hit later for more damage up front. Therefore in any situation where you are limited to just a single attack PA increases its utility because you would be denied those itteratives anyway. Fighting on the Run lets a THF limit both himself and his opponent to trading single hits and therefore gain more utility from his PA feat.

Of course, AoO's can kill such a build in Conan. For everything there is a counter-tactic.

Later.